Johannes B. Kerner transcript

JBK: What does that mean for you that worldwide people still welcome you that euphoric? Like a good friend has arrived. [waitress brings drinks]

MC: Oh, thank you. You know, it's interesting. I think that people, who want to be performers, who want to be creative, who aspire to be famous. Somehow that's like a lack has to be filled. It's a nice feeling. Satisfaction, it feels like you come back to your family, back home. Like before something was missing, and suddenly it's there. Maybe it's in the childhood... but it's great. And I have a very special relationship to my fans. [applause] Thank you. [laugh]

JBK: So now you haven't been in the public for a few months. This acknowledgement by your fans, the feeling that they need you somehow and on the other hand your feeling to enjoy the applause of the people, where that a few of the reasons for starting a worldwide comeback now?

MC: I've always had that feeling. I've always been singing, making music, that is my life. I love travelling around the world. I wrote songs and I visited countries and sang my lyrics to the people. That is important. I didn't think it would be like that when I was a child in New York. I thought "New York, that's the world. I live here and everything comes to an end here. There's nothing more than New York." Then I started traveling very early. I saw the world, met people and I continued writing. I wrote songs in my apartment and sang them afterwards, everywhere. That is a feeling I never wanted to loose. But now this is something very special, no doubt. I did have difficulties this last year, that was hard for me. My fans, my true fans were very supportive. I was going through a whirlwind and you know, the press wrote a lot of crazy things, much worse than it was in fact. Of course that affected me, we're all people.

JBK: Well, of course we're going to talk about the hard times last year but I want to talk about another issue now. That probably won't be easy for you to talk about, too. Your father recently died. Are you said that he cannot be with you at this new beginning?

MC: Yes, that was a very difficult time for me. And it's actually... we just had the memorial service about a week and a half ago. So it's still very much part of my everyday life. I think about him. You know, for a while we didn't have a close relationship, but that changed esp. in the last 2 years we really got close to eachother. I started helping him figuring out his family-tree, he worked on that and I was with him and helped him, because that contains a lot of ethnicity in me. I tried everything to complete the puzzle. We really got a lot closer. And it was just something that happened very shockingly for me. He got cancer and there was that wrong diagnosis first and we didn't know anything. So I went to Italy and then came back, just to be with him. I thought he'd have surgery and then everything would be okay. But it wasn't, it wasn't okay. They couldn't help him anymore.

JBK: When exactly did he die?

MC: July 4th. Which is Independence Day for us in America. That's why I feel like... it's kinda hard to talk about. He was a person who always was proud, he was really proud. He went through a lot of racism. At the military, for example at the army he learned to be very strict, but I didn't grew up with him so I never really understood, I just recently learned about that when getting older. But I think, he wanted freedom and he died on Independence Day, and I think that is kind of symbolic for me as well. I'll always have the fireworks in mind like that.

JBK: But you're happy that you could get friends shortly before he died, and you could clear your relationship?

MC: I'm very very happy and grateful, I have to say. That I had this life, that I could get close to him. I never realized how much he really meant to me, that he knew my music as well. He wasn't a person who made compliments a lot, he was very practical and very strict. But he also had that other side that I didn't know first. With his friends, he held speeches and told them how to do things and he was also politically involved and interested. And there happened a lot of things, esp. later in his life. But he kept everything that I ever made, even when I was just a child. I now found all those things. He said "Okay, when you look though my belongings now, you'll find that file about you." A collection of cards that I wrote and painted, when I was 3 years old. Pictures of me that I've never seen before. Suddenly there are hundreds of pictures of me that he kept when I was a baby, when, well, upto now and all these clippings and stuff. I didn't know, he never told me before. But the wonderful thing that I'm really happy about, that really made me happy the most is that he found a woman finally who he said about "This is the one I love." She supported him very much, she was with him till the very end. He died in her house. And he got the chance to find that happiness, to have somebody who was with him, to have a relationship. That is sad but I feel that we've come for a circle.

JBK: Mariah, we want to take the chance to get to know the person MC a little better. And to do so, one has to know where you come from. You're African-Venezuelan on the one hand and Irish-American on the other hand. So this is...

MC: laughs Yeah. Some things that we don't even know. [applause]

JBK: Okay, let's say it sounds rather confusing. But tell me, what is it, what is it for a family that you were born into?

MC: It is confusing, it is... How long you got? [laughs] I don't think we have enough time in that show. OK, where should I begin?

JBK: Which memories do you have of your childhood, the early childhood? Maybe even the time when your parents divorced?

MC: Well, I was really little when my parents divorced. Well, I heard all the stories afterwards. Of course I am the youngest of 3 children, but I can remember, I was always very free-spirited. And my mother was at a different place when she wanted me to be independent and allowed me to be free and independent. There was a lot of confusion, it wasn't easy for me to grow up in that house. I came along late, my sister, my brother and my parents experienced a lot of different things. They moved from Brooklyn to Long Island, into a white neighborhood. And when they lived there they had a lot of difficulties. With racism of course. People trying to poison the dogs and set their cars on fire. In the black neighborhoods that they lived in before, because they already moved around back then, everybody said "You're white". That was a really weird situation for me, to live in the suburbs. I think it would have been easier for me if we had stayed in Brooklyn. That what I think but I didn't make the decisions, I wasn't even born back then.

JBK: What does it mean... It's true you grew up between white and black. Did you also grow up between poor and rich?

MC: Never rich, not when I grew up. My father did have money, he worked for the government, he was an aerautical engineer, and he worked 30, over 30 years, but my mother had to raise with the child support and that wasn't a lot of money we had. And we moved around a lot.

JBK: I read you moved 13 times, is that true?

MC: Yeah.

JBK: That means, you never could develop roots?

MC: No, roots, stabilty, not really. I always had the feeling somebody was pulling the rug beyond my feet. That could happen any time. And sometimes we didn't have anything, no place where we could live, we sometimes spent time at friend's houses and sometimes we moved around very quickly. So it was and still is my desire to... I looked at it and saw: My mom has this great voice and all that stuff and she gave up everything. And I won't do that, I'll keep going, I'll make it and I will have a career. That gave me the drive to really work hard and work and work and work and that energy and that sometimes made me forget about the human being.

JBK: If you always had the feeling somebody could pull the rug beyond your fett, what gave you feelings of home, where did you feel at home, where was it warm and comfortable, where was it nice, where did you like to be?

MC: There wasn't really a place I could say. When I was little I had a very good relationship to my mother, we almost were like sisters. So I basically took care for myself and was really independent. I loved the animals we had. When I was at my father, when I was at his home, he had that sense of stabilty. He always had the same telephone number, all the time. Like I don't know my mother's number but I still have the old number of my father in mind. He had this stability.

JBK: But you didn't live with him.

MC: I didn't live with him, but I always met him on Sundays or every second Sunday. "See you on Sunday," he always said, that was our saying, then we would meet again. We also spent one or 2 weeks of holidays together.

JBK: You already talked about your siblings, a sister and a brother. Both of them are older than you, how much older are they?

MC: 9 And 10 years older.

JBK: They probably had to babysit from time to time, but that's not what I want to talk about. It's more about that at least your sister didn't choose a very straight way of life and had a lot of problems in life. Did that affect you?

MC: Well, I don't wanna say anything negative about that, because of various reasons I don't want to get into now. I looked at what happened with other people in my life, that were around me and I said to myself "I don't want to do it like that". And that's why I never was a premiscious person. No drugs, I never tried drugs, nothing for me - no drugs.

JBK: Have that been scaring examples for you that existed not neccessarily in your familiar surroundings but in the surrounding that you lived in?

MC: Yes. [laughs] Basically what I did as a little kid, I saw what happened. You know, when you do that then another thing happens: 15 years and pregnant, I saw that. Around me, in my neighborhood, not neccessarily in my family. That's what I mean by that. I had various dreams in my life, as I already said... I always wanted to sing.

JBK: And what protected you from getting on the wrong track?

MC: And I don't wanna pinpoint it on her. Coz the whole situation with my father brought us together in a way and it was a healing experience. Because he wanted it like that, he wanted us to find back to each other. And that's why I really want to make sure badmouth anyone. But what protected me? Well, not getting on the wrong track, I think I saw the consequences. That was... if you come from a family, where you don't see something like that. Where things like that never happen. When somebody is suffering because he did somehting wrong, because he took drugs for example. Then you say "Woo! Life's a party!" and you try it. I didn't, it scared me. Okay, I drunk when I was a kid, that's what everybody does and I always had that point and I never got over that. They might have beautiful ways to live, perfect, but I will take care of myself, I do what I think is best.

JBK: When did you have the dream to sing for the first time, to have a career?

MC: Well, I started singing when I started talking, it was like the same time.

JBK: But since when did you have the dream, that dream of a career?

MC: Well, when they asked me like "What do you want to be when you grow up?" I said "A singer, I want to sing." And everytime I had some sort of problem, I just went out and sang or wrote poems. For example when I was very little. And I think writing poems, songwriting, is kind of healing for me. That was a healing experience. Had I not been able to do this, this year as well, writing, singing in the studio. That made me get through life, even in difficult relationships for example. A record every year, that helped me, that made me grow.

JBK: You said, you started singing when you started talking. So that is pretty early.

MC: Yes.

JBK: Later in life, as a young girl, a young woman, would you say singing and writing as well, because you also talk about poems, was that somehow a refuge from reality? Like you said "I'm in my own world, I'm for myself here and everything is okay."?

MC: It's funny that you say that, because there is a poem I wrote called "My World" when I was 6 years old and my mother read it and was like "Oh" because it was very deep for a 6year-old to write and I had that book that I wrote, with poems. And I took that to school and there was a teacher who just didn't believe me that I wrote that. So we tried to explain it to him but he said "No, no, this can't be true." He said I stole it. Okay, so teachers encourage children, that's the story I can tell you from that.

JBK: Mariah, what was neccessary to make that young dreamer from early years become a pop princess, what did it need to come to the point you are at now?

MC: Well, there's the thing. I had the dream of being a professional performer. Even when I was just a little girl. So, I was trying up for Broadway plays and people kept telling me stuff like "You're too tall, you're too tall." Nowadays people say "Oh you're much taller than I thought you'd be," so I never got any roles in the Broadway plays. Okay, so I was singing with my mother, writing songs and I was a backup-singer when I was 14, so I worked with different people, singing jingles and all types of things. Of course to make money. And then I met Ben Margulies, who I wrote songs for the first album with. In a studio that was as big as the table in front of us, not more. But I didn't realize but I was producing records. I said "I want these vocals here. That needs to be louder, and here like a drum, and a little quiter in the background," whatever. And then somebody told me "Listen, you are producing, you can do that." And that was something that gave me a lot, I really produced what I was writing in High School. I was driving around at night, had 2 hours of sleep maybe, that was my usual way of life after school. Back into the studio and back to school. Not before noon usually. [laughs]

JBK: Okay, you described a time of your life when it wasn't always easy. You were singing in the background choirs. And the main focus was on other people because they were in front. Can you remember who was the person who said "I'm gonna take her out of the shadow and into the light. She's somebody who can do that, who has the talent."? Who discovered you, if that can be said like that?

MC: Well, you know it wasn't that difficult, I mean. We were talking of the time when I was 14 years old and I did demos back then and singing in the background. And it sort of like... I was getting paid and I felt good about it. It wasn't a problem for me to be in the background. But then I started working for Brenda K. Starr who had a song called "I Still Believe" which I remade for my #1's album. She treated me wonderful, she was really kind, I was like a little sister for her. "Hey, you gotta listen to this tape, she wrote all of that." Most people don't believe that when you're in such a young age. Okay, so she ended up taking me to a party and she was trying to get my tape to a guy named Jerry Greenberg who went to grab the tape and Tommy Mottola was there and he ripped the tape from him and I didn't even know who those people were. I was that girl with the little sport-jacket on and that little dress and sneakers. I couldn't afford real shoes, so I wore sneakers. You know I thought "He ain't gonna listen to this." So I left the party. I already had a deal with Warner Brothers at that point. But not really, but I hadn't signed it yet. So he left the party and he listened to the tape and he said "This cannot be the girl, this voice, that has to be another woman." That's why he tried to find me, but I was already gone and erm he tried to find me all weekend long and he finally found me through Brenda, or her manager. And erm that was it. And I decided to sign with him because I was feeling he believes in me, more than anyone else.

JBK: So this wasn't the only contract you signed with him. Because you didn't only get to know Tommy Mottola, the head of the record label, but...

MC: Yeeaahh. [audience laughs and claps, Mariah laughs]

JBK: But you also married him. The fact that you met Tommy Mottola, would you say it was a big luck or would you call it a big bad luck?

MC: [pauses] I think... okay. Here again, I don't wanna say anything bad about anyone. This is a new day. Everybody is on my positivity-list. Everybody should be happy, I'm convinced that everybody has a right for happiness. I think it was luck for both of us, and it was... intense. Maybe bad timing?! Or weird timing? And erm, overwhelming. I know, it was for me.

JBK: Did you like yourself as Mrs. Mottola?

MC: [pauses] I never was a person who thought he was getting married. Because my parents divorced when I was really young and most people...

JBK: But there also are young people who say "I want to make it better, I want to make this happen in my life." For example my parents are divorced and I always wanted to make it better. Nobody knows if I'll be able to do it.

MC: Right, but I'm not one of those people. [laughs] Well, see, what happened was I thought that... I thought that this is difficult, I don't want to make this too personal. I thought, okay, maybe it is good to show. I wasn't, I didn't need to be stifled. I wanted to hang out with my friends, I wanted to decide what to dress like what I found nice. I have nothing against him, no bad feelings. But what I want to say is that I did that because he wanted to do that. The marriage thing, I said "Well, we're gonna have a big wedding. I'm with it." But we were together a long time before. So, I'd say the marriage part was more like the end of the relationship. I think we could've been together longer, or it would have been better I think, if we hadn't married. Really. Because I just wasn't prepared to be someone's wife, that had to be nice and neat. And be together with 50 years old. Hang out and look at all the beautiful green borrows. I wanted to be with my friends and not sitting in the garden with a bunch of adults.

JBK: [laughs] A lot of people who don't really know that situation and who just want to do describe it, use the term "golden cage". Did you feel like that? Like being in a golden cage? Or is that too simple?

MC: [pauses] It's really difficult, see, we had a relationship where we both contributed equal parts. Even beacuse of the fact how I grew up. And my mother always was moving around, me not having a stable home. And then we said "We're going to build, buy a house." And I said "Okay but I wanna pay the half of everything." So nobody can ever be able to tell me to leave like "Get out!" Well, I never knew how much that would end up costing. Bu you know, we were equal contributers. And it was a very clear. And we worked well together when it came to business. He had an idea and I write the concept for the song. We had our best conversations about business related things, you know, creatively. That's when we clicked.

JBK: But that ain't a compliment for your personal relationship.

MC: Well, no, let's say you met someone who did the exact same thing as you. You know and there are really interesting conversations about the thing. Because the music industry has a lot of intereseting, very sort of little details that people from the outside don't know about. That's why it was fun. We had interesting conversations. It wasn't everything we talked about, no. But that's when we clicked, you know, we both had that passion.

JBK: But your life changed drastically because of the marriage. People can see that when looking at great pictures of great houses. And if you look at it you think that was a palace instead of an ordinary apartment, caviar instead of crackers and probably Ferrari instead of Ford.

MC : [interrupts] Well, let's not forget about not before I got married, I had already sold like multiple millions of records. [laughs] So it was not like I was coming into it broke. [laughs, applause] I don't know, I wasn't at that point.

JBK: Did you have a marriage contract?

MC: Say that first part again? I'm listening on my headphone. Was that a marriage contract you said? [pauses, audience laughs] Oh, did we have a contract? Like a pre-marriage-agreement? Yeah. Sure. He got his stuff and I got mine. So I didn't take anything out of the marraige, that I didn't take into it. Nothing. I left with my pictures in my arms and my dogs, and that was it.

JBK: Have you been happy back then?

MC: [pauses, exhales] Well, you know what it took a lot for me to be able to get through that. Tommy Mottola provided me with a sense of stability on the beginning of our relationship. Something I never had before. It was like a second childhood. That I never really had. He was very protective and he provided a stability that I never had. But at a certain point when you get too strict with a child or anyone, if you live together with a person, then you have to let that person break free. And if you wanna be free and you don't allow that then you either stifle the person or break their spirit or the other person leaves you. Was I happy when I left? I was scared for a lot of reasons, and I was you know... going was not an easy thing. He was a really charismatic person and he had a lot of influence on my career. Was I happy? Yeah. I could hang out with my friends again and woohoo, you know "I'm free". But I wanted to maintain a good relationship with him. That's possible when he's in a good mood. He's a great guy, no problem. But it's not easy to maintain a friendship when you got hurt or you hurt.

JBK: You had to have a lot of courage to make this decision for yourself...

MC: Yes.

JBK: ... to, let's say, break out there, to put an end to this part of your life. I don't want to make this sound too dramatic. You described the process but somewhen you reach that point where you say "I'm brave enough now. I can't take this no more."

MC: Yeah. Well I got to a point when I had to free myself. And if you listen to the album that I was working on on that point, "Butterfly", there are songs on the album, after that, "Rainbow" contained "Petals", there's a song on "Butterfly" called "Close My Eyes" where I talk about my life, the development from childhood to use up to that point. That moment was still a part of my childhood in a certain way.

JBK: So, in that period you reconquered your freedom. You just took your freedom, hung out in clubs as you said, you enjoyed your life with your friends. Did you maybe take to much of that freedom, was it too much for you?

MC: No, I think press made it like a big deal. For the first 5 years of my career I lived 3 hours away from New York on a farm where the only ones I saw where like cattles. I never was in the city, and now I'm like in New York, hanging out with people I've known for years and they say "Wow, now she's going wild!". But you shouldn't forget, it's not like I gew up on a farm. It's not like I grew up in that farm with the fence around. I always was free-spirited. You just showed that picture of me where I was 9 years old wearing that yellow bikini, walking up the stairs. And that is really important. Because all those people were saying "Ha, now she's changing her image, look what she wears," and stuff like that. And I look at it and I think "Hey I was 9 years old. And I already wore those clothes." That was me. It was more me becoming the real Mariah again, that was me. I didn't try to be someone else anymore. I like the long robes and I like the ballads. But I also like HipHop, I grew up in New York. I have cousins living in South Bronx and in Queens and that is also real. I'm not gonna pretend to be something I'm not; multi-cultural, a lot of races and ethnicities. I should do all types of music, be everywhere. Hanging out Upstate NY with cows and being in the city as well. That doesn't mean I went too far. Well, I can live without the cows. [laughs, laughter and applause]

Many thanks to Butterflies Are Free and Mariah Mania.