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The America magazine interview
Monday 4 April 2005
Between the rainbows and fantasies, Mariah Carey learned all that glittered might have
been multi-platinum, but it surely wasn't always gold. On the eve of the most important
album of her career, the biggest-selling female artist of all-time opens up to America
magazine's Aliya S. King.
It's 1978 and Mariah Carey has started fourth grade at Thomas J. Lahey Elementary School
in Greenlawn, an aptly named suburb on Long Island. Mariah is a mid-year transfer because
she's just moved, for the umpteenth time. In addition to getting the typical new-kid stare,
she's getting a few extra double takes. First of all, she's not quite as dark as The Black
Kid. But she's definitely not white. Then there's her hair - light brown, bushy and all
over the place. It's not an Afro, like The Black Kid's. But it's not shiny and straight
either. There's a laundry list of stuff Mariah can be teased about on her first day. Her
classmates decide to stick with the dress.
Rachel Wifall, Mariah's classmate, remembers the day vividly. Today, Wifall is an English
instructor at Jersey City State University. She hasn't seen Mariah in nearly twenty years,
but the memory of Mariah's first day at Lahey Elementary is sharp in her mind.
"Fourth grade was that time when you're fighting with your parents about wearing what you
want to wear. So the girls were all wearing our Levis and corduroys and she comes in wearing
this really frilly, feminine dress. She got teased for it."
It could have been worse. They could have focused on the fact that Mariah and her mother
had just moved in with Ernie and Mort, a gay couple who'd given Mariah the most stable home
she'd had since her parent's divorce. They could have taken issue with Alfred Roy Carey,
the Black man who walked the streets of Long Island with his daughter on the weekends or
Patricia Hickey Carey, his free-spirited ex-wife, who could be spotted with her during the
week. And then there were the houses she lived in, usually the caretaker's place that her
mom rented out from the owners of the "big houses" in some of Suffolk County's most
exclusive areas.
But if the kids in her fourth grade class really wanted to get under her skin, they could
have asked her if she had any possessions besides the book bag on her back. "I never could
look at something and say, 'I own this'."
Mariah sits perched on a sofa, blanket on her lap, ensconced in a tiny, candle-lit room
at the top of the tower that is her downtown New York City home. She grabs the coffee
table in front of her to illustrate her point. "In this one house, I would sit in the
porcelain bathtub and think someone actually owns this... nothing in this house belongs
to me."
Mariah decided early on that she would have to make some changes to her life's trajectory.
"I knew if I wanted anything, I would have to get it myself. And I wanted a lot. I knew I
wanted to live in Manhattan - in a penthouse. I wanted a bathroom that was all mine. I
wanted to be famous - not Michael Jackson famous - but I wanted to be famous."
Twenty-five years later, things have changed for Mariah, on paper at least. But a deep
reflection into the life, past and present of the best-selling female musician of all-time
brings up a host of other questions. Yes, she owns things. But does Mariah Carey own the
things in life that money can't buy?
iˇdenˇtiˇty n
1. who somebody is or what something is, especially the name somebody or something is known
by. See also individuality
In a room four floors below the tiny alcove, Mariah shows off her family tree. There is a
silver-framed photo of a young, blonde Mariah with Nana Addie, her paternal grandmother.
Addie, a dark-skinned African-American woman, was born and raised in the deep South, moved
to New York and made a small fortune in real estate. She was not pleased when her son Roy
married Patricia Hickey. Even after they divorced, she still disapproved.
"You know that ain't your baby," Nana Addie said to her son, nodding towards the room where
her four-year-old granddaughter was eavesdropping. Unlike her older brother and sister, as
a child, Mariah had blonde hair.
As the years went by, Nana Addie's criticism softened, and she schooled Mariah on all the
things Black grandmothers pass down, from how to store your wigs properly, to the importance
of covering all your furniture in plastic slipcovers. But those conversations, and more
importantly, those sentiments, stayed with Mariah, and she began her lifelong struggle to
come to terms with her identity. "I really felt ugly. I did not feel like a pretty girl. I
didn't look like my white friends and I didn't look like my Black friends."
Mariah's identity crisis continues throughout her adolescence. At Harborfield's High School,
Rachel Wifall reconnections with a very different Mariah. By junior year, the outsider in
the frilly dress became a tough-talking, cigarette-smoking wise-crack who was more likely
to be the one doing the teasing than vice-versa. "She hung with an older, rougher crowd,"
says Wifall. "There was definitely some stuff going on emotionally. My gut feeling is that
she was troubled and she was acting out."
Indeed, by the time she got to high school, Mariah and her mother had moved an estimated
thirteen times. During senior year, she was living in what Mariah calls "a shack", on the
grounds of a tiny Huntington Bay estate. She was the proverbial tragic mulatto: not white
enough to enjoy the privilege, not Black enough to protest the indignity.
Today, racial ambiguity is de rigueur in the entertainment industry. "White" people have
Latino surnames (Cameron Diaz), "Latino" people have little connection to their heritage
besides their surnames (Christina Aguilera). Vin Diesel has steadfastly refused to address
his ethnicity at all. But in 1990, when her debut album was released, Mariah's ethnicity
was immediately questioned. And she was raked over a bed of hot coals for daring to make
things complicated.
Long before Tiger Woods offended Black America by refusing to label himself as just a Black
man, Mariah Carey was the original Cablinasian, insisting that the sums of her parts be
acknowledged equally. (All together now, her mother: Irish, her father: Black and
Venezuelan.)
For white America, it was simple. She was not White. She could have been half-Sicilian and
a quarter-Martian, she was still thrown in the same pot: not White. Black people, for the
most part, sucked their teeth and rolled their eyes. Her father was Black and Venezuelan?
How come he couldn't just be Black? Mariah's decision - and ability - to acknowledge more
than just the two races became a distracting issue.
"It was a problem because of the way I look," says Mariah, running a hand up her bare arm.
Her skin is lighter than the average Italian. "We're such a visual society. As soon as we
look at someone, we have to put them in a box." (Indeed, the caramel complexions of famous
biracial figures like Halle Berry, politician Barack Obarna, Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix and
Lenny Kravitz make them Black, period.)
In his review of her debut album, noted Black music critic Nelson George alluded that
Mariah was a white girl who sang like a Black girl. When Mariah read it, she was furious.
But she was politely encouraged by her label to let it go. What would be so bad if people
thought she was, say, Italian?
"It's not like they overtly said it," says Mariah. She stops herself and rolls her eyes.
"I mean, they did," she tosses off under her breath. "But I could not control my response
to him because I felt very offended. I understand people being put off by me. But I'm only
going to sake so many shots."
At a luncheon with Black music journalists, 20-year-old Carey confronted George. "I told
him I didn't appreciate what he wrote. And that was at the very beginning of my career.
There's never been a time when I didn't spell out exactly what I am. But for some people,
I was still just a white girl. To others, I was a Black girl who was just passing."
Years later, Mariah went toe-to-toe with a stand-up comedienne who used the "n-word" when
referring to Mariah and mocking her friendship with rap artists. "This is a woman that
belongs to two groups that I do not belong to," says Mariah, her voice rising. "If I'd
ever said anything about those two groups, people would be picketing in the streets. And
you know what?" She spreads out her hands, "If I was two shades darker, there'd have been
people protesting for me." Instead, Mariah called the NAACP herself to complain. She says
that the comedienne's one-woman-show was taken off the air as a result.
"It's easy to take shots at me," she says, shrugging her shoulders. "No one feels like
they need to protect me." It's a strange position to be in. All of her life, Mariah admits
to being desperate to fit in. And yet, for better or for worse, she's consistently rallied
against anyone who attempted to create any kind of box for her - literally and figuratively.
Even if it was the head of her record label, or her husband - or both.
reˇlaˇtionˇship n
1. the connection between two or more people or groups and their involvement with each
other, especially as regards how they behave and feel toward each other and communicate or
cooperate
2. an emotionally close friendship, especially one involving sexual relations
For the four years that she lived in the sprawling $20 million dollar estate she bought
with her husband Tommy Mottola, Mariah always kept her pocketbook nearby. Whether she was
at the indoor pool, (one of two in the house), somewhere on the 56-acre-grounds, or just
in the living room watching television with friends, she always had her pocketbook sitting
right next to her. Mariah raises an eyebrow at a reporter's disbelief. In a
multimillion-dollar mansion that she insisted on paying half for, she never walked around
without her pocketbook? Mariah shakes her head slowly.
"Even though I owned that house, the only thing I felt like I owned was my pocketbook.
Tommy didn't even know why I always had my bag with me. But in my mind I thought, 'If
something jumps off... I'm ready.' I lived like that for a long time. I used to wish, hope
and dream that someone would kidnap me."
"It's funny, during that time, all my songs were like, 'sweet sweet fantasy baby' and
'dreamlover come rescue me' - and then as soon as I was single, it was all about" - Mariah
does a little shoulder shimmy and starts singing, "Honey you can have me when you want
me..." She breaks out into laughter and then shakes her head. "I didn't even realize it
when I was writing that."
Tommy and Mariah married in 1993, in a ceremony modeled after the nuptials of Princess
Diana and Prince Charles. "Yeah, everybody talks about that," cracks Mariah. "But no one
saw me on the honeymoon, running down the beach, miserable, crying and alone." Mariah
catches herself and waves a hand in the air as if to say, "I don't need to go there." But
she wants to. And she does. "It's part of my story," she said, placing a hand to her chest,
"If you're talking to me about who I am, that relationship shaped who I am. It beyond shaped
me. I still have nightmares about it."
Mariah maintains that initially, Tommy was charming. But before long, the relationship
became stifling. There were the couple's counseling sessions. "They did nothing for me
because I couldn't talk about myself and my own issues from childhood. It was all just a
tool to get into my head."
And then there were the servants who never made eye contact. "It was like, every time I
came around, somehow everyone was about their business. It wasn't until I left, that I
found out that they were told not to look me in the eye."
In addition to the occasional nightmare, it's obvious that Mariah still carries bits and
pieces of the marriage with her. Tommy Mottola was her first sexual partner. But their
union was not fulfilling in that way. "My relationship with my husband was not a physical
relationship. It just wasn't."
Today, seven years after the divorce, Mariah insists she can still count on one hand how
many sexual partners she's had. In some ways, she's proud of it. "I've never been driven
by the need to be with a lot of people. I was always focused on other things." And in other
ways, she sees her lack of lovers as a liability. "I would like to be more experienced,"
she offers. "I feel like in certain relationships, had I been more experienced, maybe things
would have been different."
And then, of course, there's the requisite one-that-got-away. On her way back upstairs from
the photo-room, she passes through the kitchen. On the wall hangs a framed photo of Tupac
Shakur immersed in a bubble bath. She fans herself dramatically as she points it out.
"Everybody always told me that he liked my music and I was always complimented by that."
When asked if they ever met, Mariah lets out a rush of breath. "Mmm hmmm," she says. "But
it was real brief. It was at the Grammys. He was driving by in this white Rolls Royce -
this was when I was still with Tommy - and he just stops and I see him, and he's like,
'Hey Mariah'."
She does her best Tupac-in-a-white-Rolls Royce impersonation: one hand on the wheel, one
arm hanging out the window. "I just said hi and then had to go back in. He said, 'Bye
Mariah', and I ran back inside like this..." She runs up the stairs to the alcove, lifting
and imaginary ball gown and looking wistfully over her shoulder. "Ahhhh," she groans,
half-laughing. "It could have been perfect."
famˇiˇly n
1. a group of people living together and functioning as a single household, usually
consisting of parents and their children
2. a group of people who are closely related by birth, marriage, or adoption
Remaining a virgin until marriage, and not having many sexual relationships since then,
has as much to do with another relationship - one that Mariah is legally forbidden to talk
about - as it does with her ex-husband. Mariah's sister, Alison Carey, was pregnant and
married by age 15. Mariah was five.
"What I saw as a kid... growing up, I saw what promiscuity could do to you. I saw some
people use sex as a way to feel wanted and loved. And I saw the lifelong commitment that
came with a child."
Alison's son, Sean, Mariah's nephew, is one of her closest relatives. "He's like my
brother," she explains. With an undergraduate degree from Cornell and a law degree from
Harvard, Mariah predicts that her nephew will be "the first Black president". Her pride
is palpable, even as she picks her words very carefully when discussing his troubled
upbringing.
As recently as four years ago, Sean's mother Alison was peddling a book, Mariah and Me,
which was purported to reveal Mariah owned her early career to her sister because she
supposedly worked as a prostitute to cover Mariah's recording expenses. Whether or not
the story was actually true was overshadowed by the scandal of having a sibling go to the
media with such a sordid tale. (In the room with all the silver-framed pictures, Mariah
pointed out Sean graduating from Harvard, and her brother, Morgan, striking a martial arts
pose. Her sister's name was not mentioned, her likeness not pointed out among the hundreds
of photos.)
Mariah's family, as such, seems to be the people she's assembled: staff, close friends and
employees who roost in her downtown apartment. Her father died two years ago; her mother
lives in upstate New York. Her brother is a fitness instructor in Los Angeles. Nana Addie
died years ago. She has various cousins and distant relatives sprinkled throughout the city,
but she seems to be together with the hired hand than any blood relatives.
First there's Ruby, the Jamaican woman who may or may not be a maid. "I don't want to say
she's my housekeeper because she's like a mother to me," says Mariah. Then there's Rachel,
a soft-spoken African-American who pops in the tiny room from time to time to check on
Mariah. "Rachel is my friend. She's helping me out because I don't have a personal assistant
right now. But she is my friend. Her daughter is like my godchild." Her publicist, Marvet
Britto, pops in and out of the house like she's got her own set of keys. Mariah just shrugs
her shoulders. "The people that work with me end up being really close to me."
caˇreer n
1. a job or occupation regarded as a long-term or lifelong activity
2. somebody's progress in a chosen profession or duing that person's working life
3. the general path or progress taken by somebody or something
By definition, Mariah's been a careerist since junior high. That's when she went up against
Rachel Wifall for the lead role in a school musical. "I was pretty sure I got it," says
Rachel, sounding a bit bemused. "And then I found out she got it instead. I didn't even
know she sang."
Depending on where you get your numbers, Mariah Carey is either the best-selling female
recording artist of all-time - or some other over-the-top superlative-laden-title that's
damn near close. The sheer output of her product is dizzying - 11 albums in 12 years. Two
albums, Music Box and Daydream, were certified by the RIAA at ten million albums sold. At
the most conservative estimate, she's sold over 150 million records worldwide. But she's
never had the amount of respect that a few Diamond Awards should afford a
singer-songwriter-producer. In the beginning, the media had a field day ruminating on Tommy
Mottola's studio creation, overlooking the fact that five of the songs she wrote before she
was signed become No. 1 singles.
"I still do interviews where people comment on the fact that I've written songs on the
album. And I say, 'Yeah, like I did on every album.' Or they'll mention that I'm working
with a new hot producer and I'll say, 'Well, actually, Jermaine Dupri and I wrote Always
Be My Baby, one of my biggest hits. And I've known him since the Kriss Kross days.'"
She also feels that she hasn't been given the same room to grow - and make mistakes - as
her contemporaries. "In the beginning, I wanted to be taken seriously. I didn't want to be
taken as a teen act. But as I evolved... I think a lot of people don't want the girl who
can sing the long notes to be sensual. I know I've gone over the top with it sometimes,
but because of my voice, and for what's palatable in Middle America, I'm not supposed to
be sexy."
Perhaps a serious vocalist should not let their writhing, moaning and all around sex
appeal overpower their pipes? Mariah rolls her eyes. "Patti Labelle doesn't wear clothes
up to her neck! Minnie Riperton came out with little shirts, licking ice-cream cones.
Even Barbra Streisand!" Mariah jumps off the couch and sticks out her butt, mimicking the
revealing pose from the cover of Streisand's 1979 soundtrack album, The Main Event. "She
had her butt cheeks out just like this... she's even done nude scenes in movies and it's
fine."
Mariah bemoans the fact that she can't even be the main chick in a rap video. She sings a
breathy chorus on Jadakiss' "U Make Me Wanna" yet only has a brief cameo. "I should have
been the main girl in that video!" she says. "I could have done it and would have done it,"
but she says "her people" didn't agree with such a role in a rap video. "I couldn't fight
it that much because I have to save my battles for my own projects."
But it's not just her evolution from flannel shirts to skintight wet suits that have put
critics off. Even while she's shattered chart and sales records, Mariah Carey has
consistently been knocked for being cheesy, schlock-y and over the top with her vocal
histrionics and ear-piercing high notes. The first problem comes from attempting to define
what it is she does exactly. Critics don't take kindly to full-on pop music. (Old-fashioned
journalists similarly dismissed Whitney Houston for much of her career, even more so,
because Whitney didn't write her own music.) Mariah's voice, with its range, vibrato and
melisma, is on par with Houston's. But also, like Houston, she's often used her voice as a
weapon more than a vehicle of expression.
Mariah discusses songwriting as her true passion and her outlet for creativity. Her voice
is an instrument; her high notes a hat trick. With very few exceptions, Mariah's delivery
has seldom had the intensity to be classified as soul music. Case in point: Carey could
easily have recorded Beyonce's wrenching delivery on the melodramatic "Dangerously in Love".
(And it is, in fact, similar in concept to Mariah's 1990 debut single, "Vision of Love".)
But Beyonce firmly plants a foot in both R&B and pop and has been allowed to co-exist.
It's as if Mariah's music is bi-racial, too. Both sides accept her. Neither really holds
her down. And when she has failed - as she did spectacularly with the movie Glitter and
its accompanying soundtrack - both sides have exhibited levels of schandenfreude usually
reserved for corrupt politicians - and Martha Stewart.
"How many moves by insert star's name here are not that good?" she asks rhetorically. "I
feel like had that movie been a priority, I would have had the same amount of support
Marshall Mathers received from Interscope and Jimmy Iovine. They treated Eminem like
someone who was making a lot of money for that company, and I made over a billion dollars
for Sony. It should have been handled properly and it wasn't. I was in over my head. Glitter
was a mistake. Period. I would love for people to see Wisegirls with Mira Sorvino. That
movie got a standing ovation at Sundance."
F. Scott Fitzgerald said there were no second acts in American lives. But in entertainment,
there are third and fourth acts. Just ask Flavor Flav. Since 1995's 10x-platinum Daydream,
Mariah's sales have declined somewhat significantly. Her last studio album, 2002's
Charmbracelet, sold one million copies. The Emancipation of Mimi is Mariah's newest work.
It is a return to form - the high notes Tommy told her to tone down after the second album
are back. She's got the power ballads with backing choirs, the requisite rapper-on-hook
track and a few full-on party songs, including the first single, "It's Like That", produced
by Jermaine Dupri. What's most pleasantly surprising is that after fifteen years, her voice
is as pristine as the summer that "Vision of Love" took over the airwaves.
The Emancipation of Mimi is undeniably a pop album, with all the elements of hip-hop and
R&B that she has embraced in the recent past. How it will be received is hard to predict.
Her diehard fans need no convincing. But how many of those are left? After fifteen years
and hundreds of millions of records sold, Mariah doesn't need any more money or fame. But
her legacy - as an artist, not a chart-breaker - has yet to be cemented, one of those
things money can't buy.
valˇiˇdate vb
1. to confirm or establish the truthfulness or soundness of something
Diptyque candles light the tiny room at the top of Mariah's tower. It's a cozy place,
stuffed with comfy sofas, throw blankets and framed photos of Mariah with friends. Over
the few hours of conversation here, she's talked at a rapid-fire pace, hardly waiting for
the end of a question before leaping into a soliloquy. She talks with her hands and keeps
intense eye contact. It's hard to believe that someone whose been talking about themselves
to the media for over a decade would still feel like they have something new to say. But
she's as eager to set the record straight as a newcomer.
She lives in Manhattan now - in a penthouse. She's got more than one bathroom all to
herself. And she's famous - not Michael Jackson famous - but she is famous.
"Growing up, if someone would ask me if I wanted to be famous or rich, I would always say
famous. I thought it would validate my existence." Did it? Mariah opens her mouth to speak,
but nothing comes out. She furrows her eyebrows and bites the inside of her lip... takes a
swig of water, looks up at the ceiling. Silence. Finally: "I don't know."
The Emancipation of Mimi arrives in stores April 12th.
(many thanks to Mariah Daily)
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Mariah Carey dethroned
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Mariah Carey tops Holiday 100
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Jennifer Hudson, Patti LaBelle honor Mariah Carey
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Mariah Carey tribute at 2023 GRIO Awards
Taped at the Beverly Hilton hotel in Beverly Hills, the annual Grio Awards aired Saturday night and gave nods to the achievements of African Americans. Among the 2023 honorees was Mariah Carey, one of the best-selling female singers of all time.
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Mariah Carey brings Christmas hits to Ball Arena
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Mariah Carey's Barbie doll sells out
This Barbie is the Queen of Christmas. Barbie and its parent company Mattel have come under fire after releasing a "poorly-timed" advertisement promoting the brand-new Mariah Carey doll mere hours after the doll sold out at official retailers.
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Mariah's twins present mom with Billboard Award
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Mariah shares favorite Billboard Music Awards memory
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Mariah Carey mops the floor - literally
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Mariah Carey Christmas song pushed to number 5
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Mattel announces Mariah Carey Barbie doll
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Mariah Carey and Bryan Tanaka spark breakup rumors
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Mariah Carey's tour setlist
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Mariah Carey roasted for looking "stiff and awkward"
Mariah Carey was called out for allegedly appearing "stiff" and disinterested during her recent appearance on The Jennifer Hudson Show. Hudson was in high spirits in a promo clip, laughing and peppering Carey with playful questions.
(Thursday 16 November 2023) |
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Mariah Carey has new rose gold hair colour
Mariah Carey's Merry Christmas One and All tour is officially underway, running from the 15th of November to the 17th of December, sadly only in North America (cry). And it seems that Mother Christmas has a brand new look for the shows.
(Wednesday 15 November 2023) |
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Mariah set to perform on the Billboard Music Awards
Queen of Christmas Mariah Carey will take the Billboard Music Awards stage for a festive, Aspen-inspired performance of "All I Want for Christmas Is You", which will mark the first time the holiday perennial has been performed on an awards show.
(Wednesday 15 November 2023) |
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Mariah and Jennifer get into the holiday spirit
Mariah Carey and Jennifer Hudson shared their favorite Christmas songs, movies, and dishes. Mariah, who has been called the Queen of Christmas, revealed, "I don't let anybody listen to anything but Christmas music while I'm celebrating Christmas."
(Tuesday 14 November 2023) |
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Mariah Carey's official holiday tour merch just dropped
Mariah Carey has an early Christmas present for fans in the form of a tour merch store on Amazon, which you can shop now. Carey officially "defrosts" on Wednesday (November 15), when she kicks off her Merry Christmas One and All tour.
(Tuesday 14 November 2023) |
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