Messageboard

About Deleted from Czech:

Re: Please respect Madonna, avoid sexist comments (89,545) (89,554) by Deleted from Czech Cisheteropatriarchal? We using made up gobbledygook now? If a 60 year old man behaved the way Madonna behaves on the stage, it would be just as ridiculous, and people would be a lot less coy about saying it. Bad taste is bad taste. (Friday 10 May 2019; 23:16)

Re: Butterfly (87,835) (87,940) by Deleted from Czech I see things a little differently. Butterfly, while a brilliant album in places (Walter collabs), really was the beginning of the end, the turning point where the manufactured image swallowed the art and the artist. It marked Mariah's creative transformation from singer and songwriter to "diva" and "superstar". Nothing exemplifies that shift more than when Mariah namedrops herself in "Honey" in that instant she manifested a new found awareness of her own place in popular culture, an awareness that would form the basis of her entire creative project from that moment on, which was quite simply to become the antithesis of everything she had hitherto presented herself to be. It was a masterly idea, really to transgress her own image, playing on people's expectations and then subverting them, pop music's original good girl gone bad. And sure enough, the fans loved it, and the critics finally started to take her seriously. All it took was an about-face and a makeover. One of the things I love about early Mariah is how unaffected she was, as a person and as an artist... She was raw and there was beauty in that. She wasn't trying to be edgy and she wasn't playing into trends, there was nothing calculated in those early albums and performances, no spectacle. I think that started to change a little with Music Box... much as I love some of the songs on that album, the music and the image became so much more refined, things were more meticulously crafted, polished to a nice commercial sheen, almost too perfect. That falseness would find it's fulfillment in the cynical, manufactured edginess of the Butterfly era, which came packaged with a new false image (Mariah as the ghetto girl), false blonde straight hair, false boobs, false singing (lipsync), false photoshopped pictures, skimpy outfits, songs written by committees and crossovers with rappers designed to tap into targeted demographics. All the things that to my mind have diminished Mariah's artistry. So many fans see Butterfly as the time in which Mariah came into her own personally and creatively, but If you stop and think about it, almost everything that those same fans criticize her for today actually started in the Butterfly era. I see the Stella mess of the last few years as nothing but Butterfly continued. She's still desperate to prove to us that she's an emancipated woman who just doesn't give a damn what people think, 20 years on. Butterfly also set in motion the total alienation of Mariah's straight male fanbase. We just don't go in for the diva antics, the "emancipated woman" mythology she started peddling, the oversexed spectacle, the plastic surgery, the skimpy ensembles, the shirtless male backup dancers, the outrageous camp, album names like "Charmbracelet" and "Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel". By the time Glitter rolled out, most of us were already long gone and Mariah has never recovered professionally from the loss of that demographic. I only discovered vintage Mariah in 2016 and fell in love with her voice and her music instantly, I had no idea that she was once an artist with an appeal beyond just women and gay guys until I was in my early 20s. It's a major problem when a woman as beautiful and naturally sexy as Mariah can't seem to keep straight guys as fans. It almost feels like she's been deliberately driving us out since '97. Not too long ago I watched an interview Mariah did on The Today Show in '91 to promote the Emotions album, you can find it on YouTube. She was asked why she had never toured, her response was, and I quote: "I'm an introverted person. It's hard for me to get out there and be really Hollywood and ham it up. That's just not who I am." 6 years later, she put out the Honey music video, which was more Hollywood than Hollywood itself. 10 years later, she was actually hamming it up in a Hollywood movie. So did Mariah lie about who she was? I don't think so. Fame, wealth and power change people. Butterfly is the sound of Mariah's transformation from Long Island girl to showbiz icon, the soundtrack of her lost innocence, really. It's the key to understanding how the girl next door became the girl in the ivory tower. (Wednesday 6 February 2019; 21:53)

Re: Mariah sues personal assistant (87,616) (87,627) by Deleted from Czech Edward, it goes without saying that there are levels to this plastic surgery shit, on a spectrum from nosejob to Michael Jackson, but I think it does apply to people who won't be honest about their own boobs. I can only conclude that Mariah surrounds herself with these wax museum escapees because she sees them as kindred spirits, and that is dark, dark thought. It tells us a great deal about how she really perceives herself. Quite honestly I think Mariah chooses these kind of people precisely because they so obviously embody falseness and superficiality, the plastic faces tip her off. A woman is known by the company she keeps. (Saturday 19 January 2019; 01:34)

Re: Mariah sues personal assistant (87,591) (87,605) by Deleted from Czech Is everyone in Mariah's team a plastic ghoul? I'm beginning to wonder if having a face that screams "I'm addicted to plastic surgery" is a necessary prerequisite for being a part of Mariah's inner circle. Stella and Lianna are terrifying, they look like a pair of Madame Tussauds rejects come to life. That plastic "look" is a red flag for narcissism, falseness and duplicity. How can you trust a woman who won't even be honest about her own face? These are the kind of people who treat everything in life as if it were a reality TV story line, nothing matters to them unless it's captured on camera or printed in a tabloid. Mariah needs some real-talking people with real faces in her world. (Thursday 17 January 2019; 18:29)

Thanks Walter (87,156) by Deleted from Czech Funny, I made a lengthy post about Caution and Mariah's creative decline on here last month, and some people didn't like it. Now Walter goes and in a few words vindicates almost every thing I said. It's almost as if he read what I wrote. "I loved the 1990s, because everyone just let loose. We had the big ballads, and Whitney was singing, Celine Dion was singing and Mariah was singing, everyone had a bigger voice and a bigger song and a better song, and more incredible lyrics, and it was a more powerful process and required more talent. Nowadays it's like anybody can do music." "The foundation of her career, the parts that made her a superstar were the bigger songs like Hero, My All, One Sweet Day. And, in between, she came out with a couple of cool ones like Dreamlover, and Visions of Love. So, her big voice lent itself to a bigger song. Along the way, though, she wants to be commercially successful. She wants to be on the radio. To be on the radio and to be Mariah Carey is almost like a contradiction to me. Because a lot of her fans, that I know of, her lambs, love that bigger, better song from her." "It's very, very hard to get on the radio these days. You have to be very hip-hop, very edgy with the lyrics, very sexy and dirty and promiscuous, and it doesn't knock on the doors of the great songwriters anymore." I'm particularly intrigued by his admission that Mariah transitioned into urban music not out of some profound artistic conviction as she claims but through a desire to chase popular trends in the late 90's/2000's. I said the same thing, and it makes a lot of sense. Anyone who has taken even a cursory glance at the songwriting credits for Mariah's albums knows that when she is the main creative force behind a song it's going to be a ballad, and that her hip hop/rnb cuts are largely written by committee. All respect to Walter for making his feelings known. It's very sad the way Mariah has tried to negate his role in the music they made together. I suppose Walter just doesn't fit with the narrative, he doesn't jive with the ghetto persona Mariah's been trying to project for a while. Tragic, because they were absolute dynamite as a team, that kind of creative chemistry can scarcely ever be found. Neither will ever come close to doing what they did together while apart. (Thursday 20 December 2018; 00:32)

A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) by Deleted from Czech My honest appraisal of the album and general musings on Mariah's creative decline, as a fan of Mariah's 90's music. I have always defended Mariah and she will always be my favourite female artist, but I really do see this album as epitomizing everything wrong with the path she's been walking creatively for a long time. -The Music is as synthetic and artificial as the blue tint of her skin on the album cover. Everything is so computerized now, everything is built upon digital beats and samples. Where "Emotions" brought to mind images of a live band of musicians putting it all together in some tucked-away studio in the back alleys of New York, "Caution" makes me think of a lonely sound engineer with dorito dust all over his face cutting beats in a home studio, copy-pasting some heavily edited vocals that Mariah's team just sent to his inbox. Everything feels so dead and inhuman. It really is the musical equivalent of all of her photoshopped album covers over the past few years. Of course, this is only a reflection of the general trends in popular music at large, which is one of the reasons we don't have talents like Mariah anymore. Why bother honing real authentic singing talent when people prefer synthetic music anyway? It's also one of the reasons Mariah lip syncs so much now, for what need is there to sing music as artificial as this with your natural voice? Nothing else about it is natural. I don't understand how people can complain about her lip syncing but apparently feel enthusiastic about the synthetic sound of her albums for the past 20 years, one follows quite logically from the other. Why should we demand natural vocals when we accept synthetic music made entirely on computers? - Vocals are without doubt the worst we've ever heard from Mariah, and not because her voice is damaged. A damaged voice can still possess beauty, it can lend an air of wisdom or tragedy or world-weariness to the right music and actually enrich it. I know that Mariah's voice still has beauty and the right material could bring that out. The problem here is threefold... firstly, this is the antithesis of the right material, the songwriting is infantile and unbefitting of a woman of Mariah's talent and years. Secondly, her voice is buried under lifeless digital production which strips it of it's dignity, truth and character. Lastly, she can't hide just how indifferent she has become to the art of singing now... Everything is robotic, there's no passion or depth of feeling, she's about as expressive as Microsoft Sam on these cuts. Granted it's hard to sing material like this with conviction, but even her signature vocal melodies and melismatic phrasing are nowhere to be found... everything is sung straight, it's all flat and basic. Anybody could have written these vocal lines and anybody could sing them. - She continues to write and sing in a completely false, contrived "street" idiom, now complete with obscenities and expletives. Who is she trying to fool exactly? Mariah, you're the daughter of an Irish American Opera singer from the midwest and you were raised by her on Long Island. You're naturally well spoken and remarkably eloquent as the countless interviews from the 90's prove but you insist on dumbing yourself down and trying to be something you're not. You're not ghetto, you're not hood and you never will be but you've been speaking and singing with a fake hood affectation for about 20 years, playing make believe as a ghetto princess. This facade has to fall some day. I suppose we can understand it through comprehending Mariah's fascination with Marilyn Monroe... Marilyn too put on a mask and turned herself into a product to be packaged and sold. She had to sacrifice Norma Jean to do it. - The lyrical content is abysmal, it's actually cringe inducing at times. There's no substance, everything sounds like some kind of narcissistic self-referential in-joke, the songs are ill-defined and don't seem to have any organised theme... It's like she's going off on a lyrical tangent on every cut. A few pop-culture references here, namedropping a luxury brand there. This is not timeless writing. It's inane and juvenile. Nothing reflects any kind of higher values, there's no wisdom, no narrative, no storytelling, no tragedy, no catharsis. All that's left is money, sex, celebrity, and sass. - The Mariah love ballad has now been all but replaced by the Mariah sex anthem. "One Mo Gen", "Stay Long Love You", "Caution", "With You" erase the distinction between love and lust. All the purity and the high romantic ideals that imbued her early music with an almost spiritual dignity have given way to vulgarity and artless references to sex acts. The woman who once sang "I had a vision of love, and it was all that you turned out to be" now sings "do you mind if we go back in one mo' gen?". When it was once "looking inside you my world is complete, I struggled to find you, now I'm free" it is now "you make me, make me wanna do that thing and do that thing, yeah". She's actually managed to become her own musical antithesis, you can't reconcile that Mariah with this one. Mariah will never write an honest love song again, will she? I don't think she believes in those songs anymore, she won't allow herself to be vulnerable like that. Everything has to be edgy, everything has to be "fun", which is so often just a cover for meaninglessness and nihilism. Even Portrait just feels like an insincere retread of something she said better a long time ago. The way I see it, the basic problem with Mariah's music and image for a very long time has been this... for all of her otherworldly talent as a singer and a songwriter, she's never had a strong sense of who or what she wants to be as either an artist or as a person, she has no sense of her creative strengths, and so as much as it pains me to admit it she ultimately lacks artistic integrity. That explains how she was able to so quickly transition from her roots as a Soul/Gospel/classic RnB balladeer with an operatic twist (90-93) to a pop princess (93-97) to a Hip Hop diva (97 onwards). It explains how quickly and completely the image was able to devour the art, Mariah didn't know if she wanted to be known as songbird supreme or hip hop sex diva extraordinaire. She ultimately sacrificed her artistry for an image that had seduced her, an image she desired to present to the world, not necessarily who she was but clearly what she wanted to be... after achieving worldwide mega-fame she no longer desired to be seen anymore as the sensitive balladeer she was when she started, but instead as an icon of celebrity, power, sex and success. So she abandoned her true calling as an artist, the very thing that made her brilliant, her unmatched talent as a balladeer, to pursue the fantasy of being an international sex symbol and ghetto diva. She's been in creative free fall ever since. The girl can't decide whether she's a gangsta rapper from the hood or Marilyn Monroe. It's sad more than anything else, she can't just be herself, she's a tangle of contradictions and confusions. The consequences? Creatively, her art has become lifeless and infantile, there is absolutely no wisdom to be found in it when she once showed wisdom beyond her years, and I believe her legacy has been permanently compromised. Personally I wonder what her inability to mature means for her... you can't be 12 forever. If you won't take the mask off yourself, time will inevitably strip it away. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 18:43)

Re: Bipolar and vocal issues (85,667) (85,740) by Deleted from Czech Of course people make excuses for other singers. How do people explain why Whitney started sounding so strained after '95? It was because Bobby Brown was being abusive and controlling, she was underweight, it was the crack, it was the cigarettes, it was the lack of rest, then after the autopsy results came in it was the missing teeth. When Michael Jackson's increasingly thin and strained voice became too obvious to hide with his vocal gimmicks from Dangerous onwards it was because of the stress from the allegations, the 25 nose jobs, the dancing, then it was the lupus, the inflamed lungs, the painkillers. People have made all of the same excuses for all of the other great singers and more. You just notice it with Mariah because you hold her to higher standards, and why? Because she set higher standards, and she was able to do that because she was a once-in-a-lifetime talent. That her voice is so extensively discussed and analyzed, so intensively scrutinised is a testament to that. You say nobody makes so many excuses for any other singer, I say nobody discusses or scrutinizes the voice of any other singer to the same extent as they do Mariah, full stop. We do the same thing with overdubs. Freddie Mercury was extensively overdubbed on every live Queen album, Steve Perry on Journey's live albums, but nobody doubts their vocal abilities. On the other hand we have people here seriously proposing the idea that Mariah could never really sing, that her voice was always "smoke and mirrors", in spite of plenty of fully live performances from the 90's which can match anything from the best singers in popular music. It must be easier to believe that she never had it to begin with than to accept that she had it and lost it. Losing it is more tragic. Mariah won't discuss her vocal decline because it is in all likelihood simply too painful for her to confront. There's no use being "mad for the deceit", better to have a little sympathy. Consider this: Mariah was known across the world for possessing a voice of transcendent beauty, she was the "songbird supreme" with legions of fans expecting her to step onstage night after night and sing the most vocally demanding songs in popular music, then one day she simply couldn't do it anymore. She struggled mightily with the songs she wrote for her own voice and sang with otherworldly ease just a year or two earlier. Worse, people scrutinized her every shortcoming and measured her by the benchmark she herself set. There was no escape, it was either mime to her own songs or let the world know that she'd lost the very gift that made her an icon, which in turn meant confronting the painful truth head on. She became a victim of her own talent and legacy. That's a crisis of identity for someone like Mariah, so much of her artistry, her self-esteem, her very personality came from knowing she possessed that gift. An integral part of her identity had been all but erased. I think that loss explains so much about how Mariah is today and the path she has been walking creatively since the late 90's towards increasingly artificial and superficial music. I see the cynical, passionless, computerized sound of "GTFO" and her other recent singles as the inevitable terminus of that path. She's finally become the musical antithesis of the girl who had a Vision of Love. I remember in 2015 on GMA when they surprised her with a clip from a 1990 performance of Vision of Love, one of the best live performances ever, just Mariah's impassioned voice, a grand piano and two backup singers. No computerised beats or samples, no guest rappers, no elaborate ensembles, no backup dancers, no distractions that would once have only detracted from her voice. She could have sung acapella and blown peoples minds. Her face watching that footage said it all, she looked completely heartbroken. The contrast between the heartfelt authenticity of the curly-haired Long Island girl and the artificiality of the Hip Hop diva of today couldn't have been more clear, however desperately lambs try to convince themselves that Mariah in '90 was nothing but a programmed puppet of Tommy Mottola. Oprah appearance aside, Mariah mostly still sounded sublime in '97 (e.g. Butterfly SNL and Letterman, My All SNL). '98 was when things really changed. Butterfly is one of the hardest songs in her catalogue and she pulled it off brilliantly, twice, in '98 there is no way in hell she could have tackled that song. (Friday 9 November 2018; 02:07)

Re: Bipolar and vocal issues (85,664) (85,666) by Deleted from Czech I'm chill as is. It's half jest. People do make excuses for Mariah's poor vocal form (e.g. MJ casket and sabotaged by Tommy), but half of the listed items are perfectly plausible explanations for her vocal decline. (Tuesday 6 November 2018; 16:12)

Re: Bipolar and vocal issues (85,658) (85,662) by Deleted from Czech You forgot to include the excuse you proposed just recently, Bill, that Mariah could never really sing at all and it was Kelly Price we were hearing all along, making Kelly something of a female Cyrano de Bergerac to Mariah's Christian de Neuvillette I suppose. So make it 19. Not every proposed explanation for Mariah's vocal problems amounts to an "excuse". That's just asinine. Jokes aside, any number of the things you listed can adversely effect the human voice because it is a fragile instrument that is dependent upon the proper functioning of the entire person, physically and emotionally. Alcohol, smoking marijuana and prescription drugs can indeed have a destructive effect upon the voice, and ample evidence of that from reputable sources including medical journals is only an internet search away. Corsets can damage the voice because they create tension around the diaphragm and correct diaphragmatic breathing is essential for a singer. That said, I don't think any of the aforementioned are at the root of Mariah's problems. Believe it or not your physicality and your state of mind are the twin foundations of your singing voice. It's no coincidence that Mariah's vocal abilities peaked when her physicality was free, passionate and uninhibited and have suffered as she has become increasingly tense, disinterested and static while performing... You may sneer at the idea that Mariah's vocal decline is at least partially a result of her emotional state but that only demonstrates your own lack of knowledge of the human voice. Let me illustrate with an example: I'm a classically trained bass-baritone and one of the first vocal exercises I was ever taught involved an actual physical "stumble" while performing an octave leap to a high note... I would let my body go and almost fall to the ground while singing. Sounds absurd, but that's what we did. Why did my coach have me do this? Because I sang with inhibitions and those inhibitions caused anxiety which in turn created muscle tension. The "falling" or stumbling motion is one means of overcoming those inhibitions, you "forget" yourself while falling and discover a new effortlessness. If muscle tension is present while you sing, your voice will suffer. I'd developed bad vocal habits after hemorrhaging my vocal cords singing for a rock band, I sang with fear, it was almost like PTSD for singers. For a long time I believed my voice was trashed for good, but it was still there. On that note, it is my view that Mariah has exhibited the symptoms of Muscle Tension Dysphonia for some time. MTD is a voice disorder which can be triggered by a vocal injury or can be psychological in origin or both. Excerpts from the University of Pittsburgh website: Muscle Tension Dysphonia (MTD) The term "muscle tension dysphonia" is a general term for an imbalance in the coordination of the muscles and breathing patterns needed to create voice. This imbalance can be seen without any anatomical abnormality (primary MTD) or in the presence of an anatomical abnormality (secondary MTD). In the case of secondary MTD, the muscle tension is thought to be the body's natural compensatory process to adjust for the vocal injury. Primary MTD can be associated with stress and anxiety. Recent research has shown that under periods of stress, the muscles that control the voice box become tense. Periods of prolonged muscle tension in the voice box can lead to an incoordination of the vocal control system. Significant stressful life events, such as the loss of a loved one, can cause muscle tension dysphonia as well. Muscle tension dysphonia is a highly variable condition. The most common symptom of primary MTD is a change in voice quality, ranging from mild to severe and it is often associated with pain or discomfort while speaking. The voice can be affected during speaking, singing or both. Often, hoarseness will be associated with an increased effort to talk and subsequent fatigue or tiring of the voice with continued use. Common symptoms associated with MTD: Vocal fatigue Unreliable voice Low, gravely voice Voice breaks Airy or breathy voice Inability to sing Hoarse and rough quality Extra force needed for loud voice Vocal symptoms worsen with stress Inconsistent voice Voice sometimes returns to normal" I've always believed that something catastrophic happened to Mariah's voice in '98, more than just nodules, something that has never been publicly disclosed. Notably her breathing technique and breath support, which had always been stellar, seemed to vanish overnight. You could hear it in her sudden difficulty in accessing her mixed voice and sustaining phrases and in the loss of fluidity in her high register which became staccato and disjointed. Even her speaking voice changed noticeably around that time. Her voice was likely never given a chance to recover because of recording and touring commitments as well as her own bad lifestyle choices. I'm thinking here of the industry parties, the places Tommy tried to keep her away from. That combined with (in all likelihood) the cessation of any singing lessons/regular vocal exercises after leaving Tommy and the emotional problems she was dealing with and you have a perfect storm. I'm of the opinion that things have gotten worse year by year, there was no real "recovery" in the Charmbracelet era, she'd simply learnt to make better use of what voice she had left. Mariah's voice will never be what it once was, it's been too long gone, but there is no doubt in my mind that she could regain something with the right adjustments. I just don't see her making those adjustments, the passion for singing doesn't seem to be there anymore. I don't think it really has been since she started moving in a new creative direction in the late 90's, into music which, let's face it, doesn't really have much of a place for real singers. Her vocal abilities went into freefall almost the moment she made the shift from balladeer to Hip Hop/RnB diva but that's a whole other kettle of fish. I hardly expect anyone here to agree but let's just say that I see the "Honey" single and music video (or maybe even "Fantasy") as the harbinger of Mariah's decline as an artist, the signs that the image and the brand had started to eat away at the art and the person behind it. "Loverboy" was the event horizon. (Tuesday 6 November 2018; 15:00)

Re: A message for Adam (84,331) (84,353) by Deleted from Czech Bill, how could Kelly Price have "boosted" Mariah's voice? It's Mariah's voice we can all hear on the studio cuts, not Kelly's. It's Mariah's voice in the live shows, whether dubbed or undubbed, not Kelly's. The world didn't fall in love with Kelly Price's voice. Check out her cover of Hero on YouTube... doesn't sound anything like Mariah and doesn't have a patch on any of Mariah's performances of that song through the 90's. You're mad if you think that dime-a-dozen mediocrity is the magic behind Mariah's golden voice. A voice like Mariah's can't be "manufactured" and if it could be so easily faked with some simple smoke and mirrors, don't you think they would manufacture Mariah Carey's a little more often? Could prove lucrative considering the kind of cash she has pulled in over the years. Hell, if Mariah's voice were all down to Kelly's magic and a few studio tricks, why didn't Mariah just bring in another Kelly Price soundalike and keep up with the charade? Singers like Kelly aren't hard to find. And what of all the astounding live performances from the debut and Emotions eras before Kelly Price made her appearance as Mariah's backup, when Mariah had male backup singers? As for why Mariah's voice declined after Butterfly, nobody knows for sure. I think it's possible that she sustained some kind of vocal cord injury but I don't think that is at the root of it. My belief is that Mariah resents the very gift of voice that made her an icon and has turned against it, because that once-in-a-lifetime gift which brought her fame and fortune has also caused her terrible inner pain. She was, in my view, already confessing to this when she wrote "Looking In" in 1995. In that song she was trying to make people understand how our blessings can end up imprisoning us. She has abused and neglected her instrument because on some level she resents her fame, resents the pressure of having to live up to the otherworldly standards she set for herself in those first seven years as a singer. I truly believe that for Mariah singing has come to represent a kind of slavery. Whitney was the same. Combine that with psychiatric drugs, which wreak utter havoc on the voice - which as a singer myself I have experienced first hand - and you have the Mariah of today. As for how Mariah has changed as a person, I agree with you, but the bottom line is that none of us really know what she has been through or what kind of personal trauma has brought her to this point. Mariah started out as a passionate but shy and sensitive teenager who froze up on stage at the KMEL Summer Jam and would blush in interviews. That inexperienced girl was thrown into a world of superstardom, a marriage to one of the most powerful men in the music business, and the unrelenting pressures of worldwide mega-fame, media scrutiny, songwriting, recording, touring, interviews, award shows... I believe Tommy on some level was trying to protect her from the destructive influences of fame and the vipers den that is the music business, but he overplayed his hand and lost her. The irony is that when Mariah freed herself from Tommy's control she became a slave to the fame itself and all of the yes-men and sycophants that come with it. Now she goes through the motions, cynical and passionless. I don't think she ever had the temperament to cope with fame... she even admitted as much in a few 90's interviews, when she used to be real. Today Show '91 comes to mind. Can fame change people? Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, and so many more. There are too many to name. We've all seen it happen. Mariah has lost herself and it is heartbreaking but I refuse to let it diminish what she has accomplished as an artist. Truthfully I don't care for anything she has done since the turn of the Millenium, but her 90's voice and songs still thrill me like nothing else can. I hope that she can find herself again. (Friday 5 October 2018; 02:18)