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Re: Whitney Houston (89,271) (89,272) by RibbonB from USA
(Monday 22 April 2019; 20:06)
Speaking of Whitney, her old gal pal Robyn Crawford is finally putting out a book. According to Wendy, it's out in November. No word on if it will be tabloid tea, or hero worship or what.
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Whitney Houston (89,271) by We are Lambily from USA
(Monday 22 April 2019; 13:47)
You never liked her because you never really [knew] the human being but instead you do know the nasty things the blogs/the media say about her. Whitney Houston was raised in a church and all she ever wanted was to sing. Look back at her early days and in her 20s and early 30s, what a beautiful light she had before this demonic industry destroyed her. It's impossible to live with all that fame she once had and not get soaked in. Her friends describe her as funny, loyal, strong, kind etc and frankly I don't care what people who didn't know her has to really say. Her addiction to drugs was human and *perhaps* her downfall.

She will forever be remembered as one of the greatest singers to grace the world, I would ask you to have enough respect to not lie about a death women or to disrespect Mariah's friend, but you don't even respect her *Mariah*. All those characteristics suits you even better Andrew.
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Re: When You Believe (89,264) (89,270) by Lainsky from Philippines
(Monday 22 April 2019; 08:42)
That was hilarious Randy. Lol. I literally lol.
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Re: Butterfly - GOAT (89,255) (89,269) by Reuben Walton from United States
(Monday 22 April 2019; 06:34)
What is that other reason?
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Re: When You Don't Believe (89,265) (89,268) by Bill from the UK
(Monday 22 April 2019; 01:12)
Playing devil's advocate here, but they clearly bonded during the recording and promotion of the song and Mariah was visibly devastated at her death. More than a snub, I believe it was more likely label politics that prevented it being included on WH's Greatest Hits. Hell, maybe they didn't see a #15 charting song as a "great hit", maybe a percentage of the album sales need to go to Mariah, or Sony, or DreamWorks, and it wasn't worth it. Who knows? I think they're all more likely reasons it was left off than Whitney deliberately not including it. Compilation albums rarely have much input from the artist and are usually a contractual obligation.

As for her attitude, I never saw her as obnoxious, more self assured and confident in her fantastic talent. She didn't suffer fools and told it how it was. It was a defense mechanism more than anything.
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Re: When You Believe theory (89,260) (89,267) by Bill from the UK
(Monday 22 April 2019; 01:02)
Actually Sweetheart was the intended first release for #1s, and was a physical release in several countries outside the US. It was planned as the lead single in the UK but was shelved after it wasn't picked up by radio outlets.
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Re: When You Believe (89,264) (89,266) by Matty from Vancouver Canada
(Monday 22 April 2019; 00:45)
Randy, dead. Lol. Me either. Get my attorney on the horn ASAP. But it’s not unheard of in the least.
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When You Don't Believe (89,265) by Andrew from London UK
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 23:57)
I never liked Whitney Houston as a person. I liked some of her songs and I saw her live in 1999 which I can say was amazing and not many people can say they saw Whitney live. But she was always a bitch. She never did not come across as a bit whacko. And sinister. I think the only reason she befriended Mariah was because she knew Mariah's voice had become slightly diminished. She would never have gone up against Mariah in 94/95. I firmly believe this. And it didn't shock me to see When You Believe missing from Whitney's Greatest Hits. That album was a must-buy. It was of its time, at the right time. And it was actually the end of Whitney's popular career. But WYB was missing. Duets abounded that album. But not the Mariah Carey duet. Wonder why? It was a snub. I think Whitney Houston was an obnoxious person. Just look at her showboat at The Oscars. Look at Mariah glance at her. Her voice was powerful. But her songs were mostly shit and she just seemed to bellow at every given opportunity. Shout outs to All The Man That I Need, I Believe In You And Me and I Love The Lord. musical masterpieces. So I am not denying that she was brilliant. I simply mean to say that everything about her as a person was obnoxious. Like leaving WYB off her Greatest Hits. It wasn't a mistake. I would bet the farm. And all the lambs therein.
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Re: When You Believe (89,263) (89,264) by Randy from USA
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 23:51)
Matty thanks for replying but for real if my future mate, who is late since the average age to get married is 27 and I'm 39, asks me to play My Heart Will Go On for our first dance at our wedding, I'm inviting a divorce attorney to the reception. That song is sad to me and is more One Sweet Day than romantic ballad.
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Re: When You Believe (89,256) (89,263) by Matty from Vancouver Canada
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 23:26)
I'm really not sure you can compare MyHWGO and WYB just based on the money pumped into each project. We're taking a Dreamworks animated film verses a James Cameron epic. Also "When You Believe" has a massive Christian religious theme woven through it which I imagine would deter a huge demo of the global buying public. MHWGO has a universal theme of love and lost. WYB is more of an "in-the-shower-lip-sync-song" verses MHWGO being a "first-dance-at-a-wedding" kinda song, making it more accessible in a grander sense, if that makes sense. WYB isn't as accessible as "Hero" when thinking about them as empowering personal anthems.

I agree with the point that at this moment Whit and MC we're having a "low moment" compared to previous successes; where as Celine (even tho she'd been around since the '80s in Canada at least), she was a slower burn to success and super stardom. 1997-2001 seemed to be Celine's top 40 cool moment. Before and after Celine always slide more into the Michael Buble realm of Adult Contemporary.
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Dennis (89,262) by Gee from U.S.A. (New York City)
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 20:58)
I did not take your post as you were trying to bash Tommy at all. My point was that Mariah was trying to make the masses aware of the sabotage going on behind the scenes starting with the Butterfly era because the label wanted to keep her boxed in as far as her artistry and image. Tommy just confirmed that she was right from that piece in his book from what I got. I understand the labels position as well why mess up the formula of success but I am glad MC decided to take the risk and create Butterfly because in my opinion Mariah the artist was born.
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Motown 60 (89,261) by RibbonB from USA
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 19:17)
This airs tonight. I think I will skip. It's amazing all the revisionist crock. No Jacksons, no Supremes, lots of BS. It appears that the producers had to give both JLo and Diana Ross prominent Grammy spots in order for them to agree to appear on this Motown show. JLo was bad for the Grammys and I is criminal for this special. Miss Ross would only appear if there were no Supremes and no Supremes songs. Diana gets on my nerves and the inclusion of JLo is absurd. R and B is continually being choked out and screwed even by some of its creators. But it's not dead.
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Re: When You Believe theory (89,239) (89,260) by M from UK
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 18:12)
Great post Randy. I also always thought WYB was a bad choice as lead single for both albums. Despite all its accolades and its strong message, it's not lead single material. If WYB wasn't the lead single, I'm guessing the labels wouldn't have felt forced to release both albums in the same week, which didn't help with sales especially for Whitney. If they had focused on pushing both albums with their own lead singles first, like I Still Believe for M and It's Not Right But It's OK for Whitney, WYB would've truly shined as the second single from both albums.
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Re: When You Believe theory (89,250) (89,259) by B from USA
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 17:50)
Mariah's streak was broken when Can't Let Go stalled at #2 on the Hot 100 after Sony pulled the single to boost sales of Emotions. Butterfly may not be Mariah's best selling album but it is considered her best album by critics and detractors alike.
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When You Believe / Count on Me (89,258) by Dennis from Ukraine
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 17:08)
Bridge of When You Believe reminds me the one of Count on Me. Maybe it's because of Babyface's production. For me those two songs are siblings.
1 like reply
Re: Butterfly - GOAT (89,255) (89,257) by Bill from the UK
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 15:53)
Whoa back up. I never said nor claimed Butterfly was an inferior album, it just wasn't the commercial juggernaut of its predecessors because the songs weren't geared towards mainstream commercial audiences. What's "laughable" is your theory that a record company would sabotage a project they have invested millions in to not generate a return on it, all because of internal politics. The reason is the casual fans who liked and purchased albums off the back of songs like Hero and Without You don't enjoy songs like The Roof or Breakdown, which is why the more "safer" option of a lead single and a standard Mariah ballad was chosen. It makes business sense.

Also, the sabotage only really happened when Mariah left the label with the whole Glitter/J.Lo debacle. Which makes sense as she moved to a rival label.
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When You Believe (89,256) by We are Lambily from USA
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 14:14)
The song was not a flop, the impact that song has alone makes it royalty. It had moderate success in the US but it went #1 or top 5 around the globe. Lets not forget it's also an Academy Award winning song. The song only had 2 live performances. They both focused on other projects instead of really promoting it.

Damn I'm gonna listen to it now, I miss Whitney Houston so much. I wish Mariah had more of her confidence when it comes to live singing even on Whitney's worst days.
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Butterfly - GOAT (89,255) by We are Lambily from USA
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 13:52)
Bill, you are so wrong. "Like it or not, the reason Butterfly didn't match Music Box or Daydream was, simply, because it wasn't Music Box or Daydream."

Their [sic] are plenty of reasons why Butterfly never reached the previous albums success. We know that Tommy sabotaged Mariah behind the scenes, Sony didn't push the album as much and the industry wasn't really down with the hip hop sound. Implying that those 2 albums are better than Butterfly is laughable. "Daydream is a close second but miss Music Box can't sit with them, TEOM is better".

There is also one more reason why but we can dicuss that another day.
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Re: When You Believe theory (89,239) (89,254) by Lainsky from Philippines
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 10:33)
Hmmm... nice theory Randy. I am still wondering why WYB reached only #15. By MC's standard that time, yes I can agree it was a flop but still went to #1 here in Asia. With your theoretical explanation, yes, #15 and the sales made sense.
1 like reply
Re: Dennis (89,248) (89,253) by Dennis from Ukraine
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 10:09)
Actually, I wasn't trying to badmouth Tommy. Show-business is a business. Company invests money and wants certain profit. Sony wanted Mariah do do the same thing over and over again. The same thing happened to George Michael. Sony wanted Faith 2.0. George rebelled. The company didn't promote his album full force and it underperformed. Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1 is still a great album, though it didn't sell as much as Faith. Tommy explained that in his book as well.
2 likes reply
Re: When You Believe theory (89,239) (89,252) by Hector from Mexico
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 02:58)
Great theory. I remember when I heard "When you believe" for the first time, I felt disappointed. The song is good but is not amazing or memorable (in my opinion). Finally, I got angry because Whitney's voice sounded better.
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Re: Bonustracks among Mariah's best (89,238) (89,251) by Hector from Mexico
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 02:48)
I disagree on some points:
- "There for me" is awful.
- I like "4real4real" but it's good as a b-side.
- "100%" is boring.
- "Runway" is not good at all.
3 likes reply
Re: When You Believe theory (89,245) (89,250) by Bill from the UK
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 01:15)
Not sure I quite agree with your take on Butterfly's promotion. It had numerous videos commissioned to promote the album at huge expense: Honey, Honey remix, Butterfly, My All, My All remix, The Roof and Breakdown. Saying there was no promotion isn't right. Honey had a massive worldwide push the same as all her other lead releases from her albums. Yes, the US only saw two singles commercially released. But the aforementioned tracks were all on rotation at MTV and numerous radio stations. Internationally other singles were released. Mariah herself cited the reason for only releasing two commercial singles, they didn't want to break her streak of number ones she'd had since Fantasy. Don't forget her competition was Whitney and she had a 7 consecutive number one streak. The Butterfly tracks, whilst all great, were a step away from what she was commercially successful at previously, so the label's caution is understood. She was heading into unchartered waters and was their biggest asset. It's like sending your best ship out full steam ahead into a stormy sea. Like it or not, the reason Butterfly didn't match Music Box or Daydream was, simply, because it wasn't Music Box or Daydream.
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Re: Mimi Outta My Head and Into Yours (89,247) (89,249) by bliss! from .
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 01:02)
Since I first heard this song "Too Deep", by dvsn (which is a duo founded by the "GTFO" producer Nineteen85), I thought: "That's exactly what Mariah should be doing." Something with strong vocals, melodic, sexy and with gospel choirs. "GTFO" is good, but it's not exactly what I expected from a collaboration with Nineteen85. It lacks climax. But it was a nice attempt.
2 likes reply
Dennis (89,248) by Gee from U.S.A. (New York City)
(Sunday 21 April 2019; 00:26)
Thanks for that, based on post in regards to MHWGO and WYB and Mariah's relationship with Sony post Daydream helps me put a lot of things into better perspective. When Mariah was talking about not getting the support and push from the label during that up until she left her claims were dismissed and she was labeled many things but for Tommy himself to admit that shady things were going on behind the scenes speaks volumes to me I don't know about anyone else.
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