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Warrior Butterfly / backward-compatible (48,638) by Edward from USA Warrior Butterfly, I've always thought the exact same thing. When Mariah was in her 20's her songs had more depth, not only lyrically, but also melodically. It was as if she'd started on reverse. Songs like Looking In, Butterfly, Outside, Petals, and Mariah's Theme were insightful and introspective. Once those childhood and Tommy issues were lyrically addressed, she then allowed her inner 12 year old child out, and the little girl refused to go back in, lol. It is the same thing that happened to Alanis Morissette, she was only 20 when she released Jagged Little Pill, but as soon as she'd released her angst through her first three albums, her fans thought she had lost her edge. "MIAMTEC" is a great album, but I've often wondered what "The Art Of Letting Go" album sounded it like before it morphed into "The Elusive Chanteuse". There's not another song similar to "The Art of Letting Go" on "MIAMTEC". (Friday 19 December 2014; 16:39)

Mariah's signature song (48,637) by Jake from New Zealand What are you all talking about? It's obviously Obsessed. No but her signature song is without a doubt AIWFCIY. The only other competition is Hero, but unlike AIWFCIY, not everybody knows it. Other signature songs from her career are: WBT, Without You, My All and ABMB. Maybe Fantasy and Emotions too. (Friday 19 December 2014; 15:03)

Fans (48,636) by Otti from Belgium I love reading posts of Jon from the Netherlands and Baby from Sweden. It's like they both know what it is all about. Bringing the right facts up, sharing their feelings about being a fan, and most of all, being thankful. I want to say something about the signature song, because we are talking about MC you can bring up 2 songs, one ballad and one more up tempo. And leave AIWFCIY out. I'll Be There and Fantasy are also verry popular over here. (Friday 19 December 2014; 14:26)

Re: Questions for positive lambs (48,598) Marissa (48,635) by Warrior Butterfly from USA I think it comes down to what era Mariah was in when the fan/lamb discovered her for them self's Butterfly is a great body of work her image and state of being were in good balance. After watching a special on VH1 called One To One about Butterfly, I found her back catalog I drifting into her early work naturally, 1990-1997. The reason quality of her lyrics and music presentation over all for the alums as a whole, yes these are the WA/MC years and they were great. I've always loved hearing an artist voice there is nothing to hide. "Vanishing", "So Blessed", MIH MTV Unplugged 3:10 mark percussion and MC, "Music Box", GRYMG, "Melt Away" and "The Beautiful Ones" real talent, slow ballad type stuff, but wow. Her later material sounds very mainstream I've caught myself questioning "is that MC" because it seemed less destructive vocally as for legendary honors that seems allude her because the legends seem to accept their age and time in the industry to where Mariah appears to avoid it all together, case in point Rosemary Clooney she aged with her natural state of being and her fans were able to evolve with her. A modern comparison Michael Buble his voice and style are his take it or leave it he don't care, Mariah cares and feels very unobtainable, Michael could go out for drink after the show. Mariah's more mature material was in the beginning introspective full of feelings and narratives everyone could reach and her pop fun was later, so it like she went reverse. (Friday 19 December 2014; 14:20)

Walter Afanasieff (48,634) by Ken from USA I was reading an article on AIWFCIY and apparently Walter Afanasieff said, "It’s a shame, because we had great chemistry. My greatest dream is to work with her again. Mariah, all I want for Christmas is you." Is this true? From what I've heard about how their partnership ended, it doesn't sound like something he'd say. At all. (Friday 19 December 2014; 14:05)

Signature song (48,633) by Dennis from Miami, FL In my country many older people think that Without You is a Whitney's song. I remember many times hearing people arguing that Whitney covered it before Mariah. I consider My All her signature song, at least here. I had 3 Mariah's albums before My All. But after hearing that song on the radio I became a fan. These songs you would hear the most on the Easter European radio: My All, Without You, I Know What You Want, WBT. (Friday 19 December 2014; 13:21)

Jon (48,632) by Twisterman from Brazil Hi Jon, I think that to set a signature song is very complicated, you cited IWKWLI as the signature song here in Brazil, and really this song reigned for a long time here, but after it all that it disappeared and never heard it on the radio and people don't talk more on it (it seems MHWGO of Celine), for a long time, until just before 1998 the people in Brazil only knew Without You, but today it's diferent, but I see that for so many reasons and shows like American Idol, The Voice and others, Hero is arguably the MC signature song here in Brazil. (Friday 19 December 2014; 13:20)

Shelly / Wendy Williams (48,631) by Lee TS from USA See I actually like Mariah's and Wendy's relationship, they like to play "nasty nice" with each other but in a fun way where you can just laugh it off. You have to check out their 2003 radio interview too. In the confines of Wendy's mind, Mariah is always a two tissue watch haha. I like to think Wendy is a secret lamb who just don't know how to express her love. (Friday 19 December 2014; 10:15)

Mariah being sued by ex-employee (48,630) by Lee TS from USA Like seriously, can this woman catch a break? All these negative press/tabloids are so irkful. Yeah, just made up a word we should add that to the lambily dictionary haha. (Friday 19 December 2014; 9:06)

Wendy Williams and Mariah Carey HQ 2005 (48,629) by Dove from USA I went through and watched all the MC/WW clips and I really like this one. This is the Mariah I wish everyone knew. The eternally 12 is actually pretty sweet and endearing but I think it's taken out of context by people who don't know her how we know her. This interview shows that Mariah is smart and can hold her own. She keeps it classy and doesn't let herself be pressured into revealing more than she wants to reveal. I also like that it's long-ish and I feel like we're just friends hanging out. I laughed out loud a few times and didn't want it to end. I hope we get more interviews next year. (Friday 19 December 2014; 5:19)

MIAMTEC is #7 on Idolator editors favorite 10 of 2014's best albums (48,628) by Baby from Dreamville...Where There's No Beginning & There is No End "Spare us the over-the-top grief about Mimi’s All I Want For Christmas Is You performance: She’s been using those golden pipes for over 20 years, and she’s still supplying greatness today. Case in point? Me. I Am Mariah…The Elusive Chanteuse, her most insanely-titled record to date, and certainly one of her most true to her artistry." Hmmm, the delusional lambs really do get around, don't they? Anita Baker, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Marc Shaiman, Debbie Gibson, Britney Spears, not to mention the Lambily Fanguard of which I am a proud member. Pretty good company if you ask me. If you're not on Team Mariah then guess what? Christmas came early this year and I say, good riddance. (Friday 19 December 2014; 3:50)

Nikki (48,627) by Jon from Netherlands I loved your message. So positive and all based on facts. Certainly there are other facts that would make one less optimistic but your message made me happy. She does get a lot of respect from artists like Mary J. Blidge and everybody that works with her loves her. Mariah is sweet at heart and that's why I defend her even though I see that sometimes there's something wrong. But it's not her heart. Even if she was a horrible person her music is unbeatable. Being a nice person makes me a fan of not only her music but also a fan of hers. Mariah has saved a lot of people from bad situations. Her music is in our hearts. It's not just bubble gum pop. I'll stand by her even if I don't stand by everything that she does. (Friday 19 December 2014; 2:01)

Shelly (48,626) by Jon from Netherlands Unfortunately this is the society we have. It's rather superficial and tacky. Mariah could be out there talking about the divorce but she isn't. She's keeping it classy. Has anyone said anything about that aspect? Of course not. Has anyone said her redintion of Lullaby Of Birdland showcases a different and in certain levels better Mariah? No. When she goes for the melismas some people hate it, when she goes the other direction not a word. Is really having vocal issues the worst a singer can do? What about the bad examples of so many that are out there? Mariah suffers the syndrome of the little girl: when she came out she was the little girl, like a daughter is to a father; then she freed herself and people didn't like to see it the same way a father wouldn't like to see a daughter in short skirts; and when she fails people are happy to say "I told you so" because she doesn't conform to the idea people had of her (like a bitter father). As Mariah said back in the Butterfly era: what I'm doing is pretty tame, is not like I'm going around with whips. So many hate on her because she's "divalicious". Well is that really the worst one can be? It's not like she's actually arrogant and rude to peole. Just a bit histerycal but it comes from being insecure. The general public doesn't get it, it hurts her image but they can always go for a fabricated pop star (that will end up like Britney in 2007). I for one don't need the public to like Mariah. It's their loss. (Friday 19 December 2014; 1:42)

We all know this is not her best year (48,625) by Otti from Belgium The "problem" here on this messagesboard is that some fans are defending MC, because she did already so much for us, from the '90's til now, we never really had to miss her. Between studio albums, there was always another album. MTV Unplugged, Merry Christmas, Number Ones with new tracks, The Greatest Hits, MCIIY. She writes her own songs wich her fans can relate to. Mariah is always being honest about her voice, and that she needs rest to sounding good. And now seeing the media putting her through hell because her mic falls down, or because she misses a note is so painful for someone who puts her all in to her work. We all know that there is a problem with her label, marriage, her weight, her insecurities. Like I said before, give her a break. I know we want the best for her. With her talent, voice, writing skills, her looks, here is so much more to come. (Friday 19 December 2014; 1:35)

Signature song (48,624) by Jon from Netherlands I live in Amsterdam and the other day I was with a piano player and asked him if he knew how to play any Mariah Carey song. He said no but ended up saying he could try Hero (which he did from memory). For a lot of people it's Hero. She sings it more than any other song and the public loves it. To me that bridge is the most epic musical thing I ever heard. When it comes to Mariah it is hard to say which song is her signature one. TGIFY is probably not even in the 10 most known ones. It really depends on the perspective, market and age group. For some people it's VOL. For those more concerned with cultural impact is Fantasy remix. In the Asia market Through The Rain is pretty big. If you go to Brazil is I Wanna Know What Love Is. For those in their early twenties now is WBT. For some it's actually When You Believe (very liked in some markets though technically not a Mariah song). Without You is the Mariah song for those in their 30's, 40's and located in more "ballady" markets (a Celine Dion fan will easily associate Mariah to Without You). Having said that, with time AIWFCIY will cement it's position as her signature song. Don't really know why but it makes me sad. It feels like a fluke, like she got lucky with a song that has the Christmas factor so it gets played every year. I would love to see ABMB be her signature song. It's a brilliant masterpiece that is just absolutely irresistable. (Friday 19 December 2014; 1:26)

What I meant by positive / the unfortunate subcategories (48,623) by Marissa from USA When I asked the question for positive lambs, that wasn't shade or a code word for "delusional". I was curious to know what the people who are satisfied with Mariah's approach feel is causing such media slaughter and disrespect. As much as I wish all of us could be on one accord, there are obviously cliques and subcategories among the lambily, and I define them as follows: 1. Positive: Only post when they have complimentary things to say about MC. I see nothing wrong or "delusional" about this approach. 2. Compartmentalized "positive" lambs: Complimentary towards Mariah, condescending and elitist towards people who give constructive criticism or voice moments of dissatisfaction. Typically are unable to get their point across without belittling others' opinions in the process. Can often be found asking "Are you a fan?" or referencing fellow lambs who have spent just as much time, energy and money on MC as "haters". (Yes, there are people who are actually "haters" of MC but I doubt that they are on this board. I've seen two sentence YouTube comments more vicious than 1300 character posts on here about her.) 3. Tough love lambs: Can acknowledge Mariah's moments of greatness, yet have no issue speaking up about things that seem defective. P.S. Shout out to Jon from the Netherlands who actually answered my question and I agree, a lot of the media doesn't catch on to MC's inside jokes. (Friday 19 December 2014; 0:57)

Marissa/Edward (48,622) by Orkun from The Netherlands Marissa, your message was indeed spot on. Edward, your message about Marissa's and your additional points were spot on too, big time. Very clear, very true. I thought I'd just jump on the same boat. That makes it a "hat-trick". Yea I know, it's a soccer term. Lol. Jokes aside, I definitely am on the same page as you guys. (Friday 19 December 2014; 0:37)

Marissa / isn't it annoying? (48,621) by Edward from USA Marissa, your last post was spot on. If you criticize Mariah, you're not a fan or a positive one, or you are a duck. Once the "Mariah's voice is in great shape and always has been" surfaced on this board, I realized that whoever said it wasn't ever going to look at Mariah's career with objectivity. So, while some praise how Mariah has improved lately, the same people forget what prompted that improvement. She improved because people complained and voiced their discontent. If it were for the "all is right in Mariah's camp" positive lambs, the media would be eating Mariah alive, because they would still be telling Mariah that her first "Elusive Show" was to die for. Mariah has had a rude awakening with this social media era, cellphones, the internet. The dubbing days are gone. It's sad it happened at this point in her career, but the time for consistency has come, and she's been giving us that with these Christmas shows. (Friday 19 December 2014; 0:05)

Jon (48,620) by Dove from USA Re: post (48,591). I thumbed up your comment but since we don't know who's liking our posts: I agree a lot with everything you wrote. It's so annoying to read teenie-boppers write that their favorite is better or more popular than Mariah or that MC fans are "mean" when we're just trying to inform them of why MC is a living legend. Ariana's team are the ones putting it out there that she's the next MC. Something needs to happen to remind everyone why MC is one of a kind. (Thursday 18 December 2014; 23:08)

Wendy (48,619) by Marissa from USA I agree Shelly. As much as I wish Wendy's opinion was irrelevant, she is extremely influential. After continuously watching Wendy's bs, the only people who are going to continue to hold MC in high regard are the lambs because we know who Mariah truly is. The average person is eventually going to get worn down by Wendy's Mariah-bashing. They aren't keeping up with Mariah's good performances, so when they see Wendy Williams only highlighting bad performances and MC supposedly being an alcoholic spending all day crying over Nick, next thing you know they migrate to the comments of her videos saying "Mariah doesn't have it any more". (Thursday 18 December 2014; 22:46)

All I Want For Christmas / Billboard (48,618) by Edward from USA AIWFCIY moves ten places from #50 to #40 on Billboard Hot 100. Most likely it'll peak in the mid 20's by next week. The song is sitting pretty at #32 on the iTunes 100 songs. I can't wait for Sunday where I'll finally see Mariah again after some many years. (Thursday 18 December 2014; 22:26)

"Delusional" lambs (48,617) by nikki from usa Mariah has always had haters during all parts of her career. Perceptions and opinions are subjective and change with the tide. A singer having an off song wasn't considered "news" a decade ago. Actual news of CNN variety was considered "news". These days entertainment news and tabloids have replaced it. Those publications and shows change by the second. The positive lambs who are called "delusional" are actually reporting logic, rational, objectivity, and facts. Mariah's last #1 was this year on the dance charts, her last platinum single was last year. She hit #1 again this year as she does every year with her holiday classic. She was crucified for a single song live. Yet, she added a 6th date to her sold out Christmas shows due to public demand. Last year, she had an unannounced NBC special that still drew over 2 million viewers. That's the same amount of viewers that tuned into AI in 2012. Mariah's album was the most critically acclaimed of her career. Clearly, there's a demand for her. The facts and stats attest to this. Mariah's rough performances also have more celebs and fans coming out to defend her like never before. That's love and respect. Expecting gossipers to give respect is like expecting clean water from raw sewage. People in general will follow whatever they're told. But, as I stated previously, that changes with the tide. (Thursday 18 December 2014; 21:57)

Reviews and the media (48,615) by T from I've been a follower of the site for sometime now but never posted. I think things have gotten a little out of hand when it comes to the media and the way they are treating MC. How does someone crying during a very touching song such as Hero translated to a concert being a mess? It'd be different if she was crying during AIWFCIU. It's like they are pin pointing ever little thing that MC. I never thought I'd see the day that MC made headlines because her mic pac fell off her dress or her shoe came off? This is starting to get rediculous. It's like they are trying to push her over the edge. I don't think MC has been this talked about since TEOM. As much as I love seeing MC, I really want her to take a break after these Christmas concerts. She doesn't deserve what she is getting and she needs to be missed. I feel so bad and I hope her sprirt isn't being affected by these mean spirited jerks. I'm so glad she isn't fighting back and remaining quite. Sidenote: I saw her on Tuesday and she was amazing. (Thursday 18 December 2014; 21:47)

Baby / the super positive one (48,614) by Edward from USA TJ, a fan who's been coming here for 16 years, and who very rarely posts was the one who saw how angry your approach is. Just like him, I do also think that you come across as self-righteous and angry. You make your points as if they were facts, and most times you're condescending. I personally think there is not an iota of objectivity in your posts, you sound like a broken record regurgitating the greatness of Mariah Carey, but dismissing any opinion others might have that differ from your point of view. Picking the names of some fans that you think agree with you to elevate yourself as the righteous one, and those who don't agree are baptized by you as ducks. If you haven't noticed, many of your posts have been given the [...] treatment for God knows what. In your La-la Land bubble where Mariah is the queen, you've created your own dictatorship, where obviously criticism is not allowed. I might not always agree with some fans here, but I've never question their fanhood, calling them ducks. If there's an angry duck here, it's you. Now, on a more positive note: Merry Christmas, baby please come home. (Thursday 18 December 2014; 21:43)

Baby from Sweden (48,613) by MimiLamb from Germany I for one love your posts here. You write very well and explain the feelings that you have very clearly. People should not be attacked I read, we should value each others opinions even when we don't agree, we shouldn't take it personal. That's very true and I agree, but it's kind off funny to me that this is being said the minute certain people start a discussion or even when they give Mariah though love. But when somebody shows love or defend Mariah they get attacked just the same like I have seen happen to for instance. Baby, why is it okay then I wonder? Because at that moment nobody is posting about respecting each others opinions. The positive lambs is another thing that really gives me an off feeling, sorry, are we really going down that road again? The positive versus the real lambs or the though love lambs? I really hope not, I also see it as an assumption were I will kind of dug a hole the minute I answer, and I really don't feel like going through another discussion amongst the fans/lambs etc. They mostly don't end so well and I rather keep it about the festive holiday that is around the corner. (Thursday 18 December 2014; 19:55)

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