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Re: Article: Mariah Carey shares heartbreaking song (94,325) (94,331) by Anonymous from Hi Licia, I agree with you in regards to Mariah being vocal about the movement. Ultimately the movement isn't about one person, nor just police brutality. It's about black people primarily being treated unfairly due to the colour of their skin, whether it's the justice, education, mental health system etc. The treatment within these systems tends to be harsher for this particular group. As I envisioned, some people have completely missed the whole point of the movement and instead of trying to understand it, would rather look to seek out it's flaws and find counter arguments as to why it shouldn't be justified. No one of course should lose their life or be injured during this process, especially for speaking up, and I for one am disgusted and extremely angry with some of the behaviours displayed by protesters. The violence isn't necessary. I suppose for some though, until you've experienced racism no matter what direction you take in life, where you're always having to fight against the system, it's going to be harder for those to fully understand. People have a right to their opinions, you just focus on spreading positivity and helping people to better understand and educate on how rough it can be and how they can help. I'm not saying other races don't have their struggles and blacks only suffer, but it warms my heart that others of different shades are trying to acknowledge, understand, and support the movement. Keep your chin up girl. (Monday 8 June 2020; 14:06)

Re: Article: Mariah Carey shares heartbreaking song (94,329) (94,330) by Norman from USA Other than this post about them, have you sought out justice for those victims in any way? Because if your outrage is only about people voicing their grievances and their outrage about black people being disproportionately killed and attacked because of the color of their skin, you might want to reassess the situation and sit this one out. And you can miss me with the looting angle if that's your retort - outrage prioritizing insured real estate and goods doesn't outweigh a life. That's also part of the problem. (Monday 8 June 2020; 13:59)

Article: Mariah Carey shares heartbreaking song (94,329) by Cass from New Zealand I agree with Andrew and I would like to add - where's the tribute for Tony Timpa who died the same way in police custody, is it because he's only white? Where's the protest for the black policeman David Dorn who came out of retirement to protect his friend's store against the rioters as a favour? He was shot in the head and left to die on the footpath as people stood around filming him with their phones. Where are the songs for the 20 people that the protesters have killed so far? (Monday 8 June 2020; 12:59)

Re: Article: Mariah crashes "Schitt's Creek" performance of "Hero" (94,327) (94,328) by Tijl from Belgium I don't really understand the concept of the "Shitts Creeck" (or something like that) thing but oh dear, she looks sooo good and happy. Mimi, you keep on surprising us. Thank you for that contagious laugh, it made my day. I feel as the world is getting close to burning up. Confused, scared and apprehensive about the coming weeks but you pull me through. As always. (Monday 8 June 2020; 02:08)

Article: Mariah crashes "Schitt's Creek" performance of "Hero" (94,327) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Just lost my schitt. This is awesome. Just finished the second season of this show today - it's the best show, ever. This is amazing. Mariah looks and sounds great. (Monday 8 June 2020; 01:00)

Article: Mariah crashes "Schitt's Creek" performance of "Hero" (94,326) by Will from England To be fair, I would have had the same reaction as David. Love that she popped in with perfect lighting and that wind machine going. (Monday 8 June 2020; 00:16)

Re: Article: Mariah Carey shares heartbreaking song (94,322) (94,325) by Licia from USA I knew somebody would have an issue with her standing up for Black Lives Matter. Anyway, I appreciate her for showing support. I already know if this were for any other issue this wouldn't be a problem. *shrugs* (Sunday 7 June 2020; 21:35)

Re: Mariah’s most poignant political gesture ever (94,323) (94,324) by Andrew from the United Kingdom "Andrew, your Klan robe is showing from underneath your dress." Nothing I said involved the notion of racial supremacy and I do not believe it shameful for a man to wear a dress, or to identify as trans, as you evidently do. Were I to want to wear a dress I would do so proudly. And I would look fabulous, sweetie. "You should reserve your bleachy comments about U.S American issues." Unless I am mistaken you mean "bleachy" comment to mean a comment from a white person. Not only are you clearly sexist/transphobic you are also racist. And only two sentences in lol going well. "[Y]our ridiculous post." My post was not ridiculous but rather ridiculing - ridiculing the ongoing exaltation of a man who, whilst undeserving of death, was a smackhead, violent career criminal. "That song speaks directly to the kinds of people who watch police brutality and go on and on for weeks about how terrible it is but in a real situation would never do anything to intervene or change the calculus of the situation since that would threaten their lives." Since I very recently stated I occasionally get into hotspots for trying to stick up for people I can offer here that I would probably not do so if the aggressor was carrying a loaded firearm (although they are thankfully mostly unlawful here). That is unless one of them was a smackhead, violent career criminal jabbing said firearm into the pregnant stomach of an innocent women he was robbing before she was pistol-whipped to the floor. Then I hope I might be brave enough to offer to take her place. So, the smackhead, violent career criminal gets "Languishing", the woman whose unborn child he threatened to shoot before he pistol-whipped her around the head for drugs money gets "Close My Eyes". Cool. What about the white police officers who are 18.5x more likely to get shot by a black male than they are to shoot one? What do they get? "One Sweet Day"? What about the incredibly high number of black homicide victims, over 90% of whom are killed by other black people? "Bye Bye"? There is a lot missing from the narrative that is being pushed. And whilst the new mantra seems to be an if-you're-not-with-us-you're-against-us kinda thing, I am reminded once more of the hypocrisy of most militant movements. Anti-fascists, indeed. "As the Floyd family send George home..." said Mariah. You would think him Mother Theresa's protégé. He ought not to have been unlawfully killed. That much is certain and the person who did it must be punished with a significant prison sentence. But I am not certain this victim should be portrayed as an angel returning to heaven as seems to be the widespread case. From what I've read, he's gonna have a hard time getting in. (Sunday 7 June 2020; 20:12)

Mariah’s most poignant political gesture ever (94,323) by Geronimo from USA Andrew, your Klan robe is showing from underneath your dress. You should reserve your bleachy comments about U.S American issues. This song applies perfectly to the situation in a way that is probably too nuanced for you and the clowns who've shown approval of your ridiculous post. That song speaks directly to the kinds of people who watch police brutality and go on and on for weeks about how terrible it is but in a real situation would never do anything to intervene or change the calculus of the situation since that would threaten their lives. Mariah relating that song to this situation speaks directly to the kinds of people who need to think about whether or not their after-the-fact responses should instead become reflections in preparation for what they will do in order to actually preserve life before it's taken. I am so glad Mariah Carey stepped away from her "There's Got to Be a Way" sentimentality in order to point a finger where it really belongs: at the listener. This is her most politically relevant gesture. Don't miss the point by being dull. (Sunday 7 June 2020; 02:14)

Article: Mariah Carey shares heartbreaking song (94,322) by Andrew from the United Kingdom So this will make me popular but I think the sentiment could do with being expressed: linking Languishing to what is going on is a stretch and not a good one. Why? Why was this necessary? Whilst I feel sorrow at George Floyd's death is he to be exalted? I wonder if Mariah has a song for the woman whose pregnant stomach he jabbed the barrel of his loaded gun into as he and his compadres robbed her house before beating her around the head? What song for her? "Close My Eyes"? (Sunday 7 June 2020; 00:17)

Little Fires Everywhere (94,321) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Watching this on Amazon Prime Video startjng Reese Witherspoon and Keery Washington. It's set in the late 90s and Honey is featured prominently in Episode 4. Good surprise. Check it out. (Sunday 7 June 2020; 00:06)

Re: Migrate (94,317) (94,320) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Ah but *which* single should it have been? I think it should have been first. In fact I think the singles were suited to running order: Migrate Touch My Body Cruise Control The desperate need to have a ballad released tends to ruin the pace of a release. People want fun. (Saturday 6 June 2020; 13:59)

Re: Migrate (94,317) (94,319) by The Real Deal from USA #JusticeForMigrate (Saturday 6 June 2020; 00:27)

Re: Migrate (94,317) (94,318) by Edward from USA First Andrew's with his unique, phenomenal and never before heard idea of Mariah working with Bruno Mars and The The Smeezingtons and now this? I have to go back to Wikipedia to see what I can come with. (Saturday 6 June 2020; 00:08)

Migrate (94,317) by Bill from the UK Migrate should have been a single. (Friday 5 June 2020; 22:59)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,314) (94,316) by Ma from Germany I appreciate getting to know a bit more about you Andrew. I mean of course this board isn't a group therapy session so why should we be divulging personal information at random but to me it has been nice to see a softer side because usually when I see your posts (and I have been on this board - silently - for a very long time) I'm usually just like "oh no, not him again". However, I still stand by what I said about you coming off as very (c)rude and insensitive at times, even if it is your opinion. But I feel like we don't need to discuss that any further, you've made your point and I made mine. "Hold on a moment, if you use race, nationality and sexual orientation against someone." - I was using it against you in the context of what I perceived to be a very shallow statement and so as to highlight the sense of entitlement I felt I noticed. Your homosexuality and straight lambs - I didn't have to assume you are homosexual, I think I read you write it around here. Also, I am not going to discuss with you how straight lambs might feel because I acknowledged in parentheses that there are straight lambs. I only brought my queerness up for the olive branch moment. "I find objecting to unfairness, at the least, absolutely morally obligatory." - Well, so do I, that's why I posted. I think we're quite on the same page, we just had shitty ways of bringing it across. "And I apologise if I have ever fallen short of that." - Apology accepted. I apologise if I came off in a way that was very superficial and from a point of prejudice toward you. (Friday 5 June 2020; 07:45)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,310) (94,315) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Exactly my point, made more clear and fresh that I could have. The point of the argument is sound. And I invite anybody to debate that institutional racism must not be confronted right now. But all these absolute tits have done is detract from what was a good movement. And, in that, the moment, I fear, is lost. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 23:01)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,312) (94,314) by Andrew from the United Kingdom "Hello Andrew, first of all, I wish to say I am sorry for assuming that you were English. In Germany, "English" or "England" is commonly used to refer to all of the UK which is of course ignorant and I should have know better." Having studied German, I would say "Ich bin Englander" over "Ich bin Britischer" as it is somewhat idiomatic. It is not important but I used it to make a point about moral subjectivism. "With that being said, I will disregard what you said about me demanding others to feel insulted." I was being facetious about people who swim nightly in dreams of intersectionality and offense, i.e., the modern left. It was a joke so please don't take it seriously. "...[A]nd also the insinuation that I have problems with people's nationality, race, and sexuality. You don't know me thus I won't take it personally and come on, I'm a male person on a Mariah Carey fanpage, so I am queer. (Not to say that there aren't straight male lambs.)" Hold on a moment, if you use race, nationality and sexual orientation against someone you cannot just dismiss it and ignore the hypocrisy here. I appreciate the olive branch sentiment and I do not wish to pursue antagonism, but this is the one of the issues of the time - those who proclaim to be the arbiters of morality actually turn out to be the worst offenders. If I made comments, as you have, against people based upon immutable characteristics I would be annihilated. I could claim a faux moral outrage myself at you insinuating 1. that I am a homosexual and 2. that all male Mariah Carey fans are homosexuals. On the latter, the majority might - factually - be, but that approach is offensive according to the liberal ideology. Eric, the person I see you once thanked for providing the facility of this Mariah Carey board (alas, it is a Mariah Carey board...), is straight. How do you think he feels with your asserting that most people who like Mariah Carey are homosexuals? Why does sexuality have any bearing on it? Where is your enlightened sense of morality now? Nobody should care. Right? But, of course, straight white males aren't entitled to emotion. All internal battles that have worth are prescribed. "I found what you wrote very interesting and I agree with it." I generally try to write sense with fact and rationale. I have been educated in varying ways a couple of times by people such as Jade and Randy whom I consider to be friends. I do not consider myself important. People seem to believe I am a nasty person for being brutal in honesty and taking the piss in quips. Whilst I have softened a lot in my approach in the past few years, I will not kow-tow to emotional argument that does not advance rationale. "What I had a problem with and where my anger came from was that your original post lacked "a rational conclusion that relies upon detail and thought" as you put it, and I hate to say, but this is often the case with what you post. You often post such crude and hurtful things, Andrew, and you often come across as very bitter and arrogant and full of resentment (and it has gotten you banned from this board or has made other people leave this board). And that original post to me was yet again so superficial and over-generalizing and lumping everyone into one category and so little differentiated." What I post is the truth as I see it. And I can defend my position. I fell out with Eric over a post about Mariah's weight. I attempted to post that I believe she had increased the size of her breasts as her weight increased. However it was written I still believe it. it is not an insult but rather an observation of what I see as a truth. I want to live in a world that is honest and understandable, not driven by others with political objectives. If people leave the board because of me then they need to get a grip. Or just don't read my posts. I maintain that you do not have the right not to be offended. However, I do try my best these days to word things in a way that will be less offensive and more appreciated by others, even if they still do not agree. Perhaps, I am slightly less mature in that way than others who wizened to that much earlier. "I think now is a time to only say things if you have things to say and otherwise amplify the voices that need to be heard." I take issue with this, also. I will amplify any objections to discrimination. I find unnecessary discrimination, at the least, morally reprehensible. I find objecting to unfairness, at the least, absolutely morally obligatory. I have a reputation amongst my friends for interjecting in arguments and violent arguments that have nothing to do with me in public because (not being a very built person) I have words, intellect, empathy, a lack of fear and an ability to calm at my disposal. And I also feel nauseous at the idea of weak people being hurt. That being said, I have been hurt several times as a result of trying to be the arbiter of peace, even once being cut with a knife and once being subsequently pursued by members of a gang before other people I knew sorted it out for me and we made peace. I am not a "white person in an ivory tower". Far from it. Last year I stood in the centre of Woolwich at 1am telling a gang member with his boys behind him he would have to stab me first because I wasn't going to let him hurt someone who was clearly mentally unwell and didn't know what he was saying. Swear down. Ivory tower? The idea that people have of me here does not bother me because it is the antithesis of what I am. As the years go by I become less combative. You only need look back 6 years on this board to see the difference. "So thank you for giving this detailed answer and showing that you actually care and are aware." I have written many long posts here attempting to rationalise debates. I obviously care but I will not kow-tow if I do not think something right. That being said, I hope this is the last long post I have to write. All I originally meant was that people and communities are abusing protests about racial injustice for their self-serving ends. Which they are. Sorry you do not like my delivery. I don't much like yours. I will, however, try to be courteous even if I do not respect your viewpoint. I think that's a great place to start. And I apologise if I have ever fallen short of that. Which I am oft reminded that I have. Go boldly. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 22:58)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,311) (94,313) by RibbonB from USA Should have read as protesters not protectors. Yay to peaceful, conscientious citizens around the world. Note insider traders and the other political thieves are the biggest looters ever and they are doing it in broad daylight with impunity. Hopefully that changes. Down with our grifter in chief and his enablers. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 21:18)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,306) (94,312) by Ma from Germany Hello Andrew, first of all, I wish to say I am sorry for assuming that you were English. In Germany, "English" or "England" is commonly used to refer to all of the UK which is of course ignorant and I should have know better. With that being said, I will disregard what you said about me demanding others to feel insulted and also the insinuation that I have problems with people's nationality, race, and sexuality. You don't know me thus I won't take it personally and come on, I'm a male person on a Mariah Carey fanpage, so I am queer. (Not to say that there aren't straight male lambs.) Also, I merely quoted this article because it had some examples of rioting and looting and I wanted to put my point in a certain context. Again, this is a Mariah Carey fanboard, I am not going to give you a university essay with a whole bibliography. As to the rest of your post: I found what you wrote very interesting and I agree with it. I also agree with the fact that looting stores etc. destroys other people's jobs and livelihoods. I also know that of course, also some white people have it really bad and some people belonging to minority groups are really well off. What I had a problem with and where my anger came from was that your original post lacked "a rational conclusion that relies upon detail and thought" as you put it, and I hate to say, but this is often the case with what you post. You often post such crude and hurtful things, Andrew, and you often come across as very bitter and arrogant and full of resentment (and it has gotten you banned from this board or has made other people leave this board). And that original post to me was yet again so superficial and over-generalizing and lumping everyone into one category and so little differentiated. Of course I could have used a different, more argumentative approach to replying but I just think that everything has a place and a time and now is not the place and time for whataboutisms or lumping everyone into one category or being undifferentiated and not mindful with one's own words while making very inappropriate jokes. I think now is a time to only say things if you have things to say and otherwise amplify the voices that need to be heard. So thank you for giving this detailed answer and showing that you actually care and are aware. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 18:57)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,310) (94,311) by RibbonB from USA Spot on. And a lot of the disruptors are there intentionally to muddy the waters and co opt the energy of real and true protectors for change. There are even videos of cops or other agents panting bricks, or destroying property while legitimate protesters beg them to stop. It warms my heart to see the show of solidarity from protectors in all parts of the world. Sadly there are always opportunists during moments of chaos and unrest and that includes our pathetic president. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 18:43)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,307) (94,310) by Licia from USA As a black woman I am proud that people are protesting and fighting for change. We just want people to hear us and understand why we feel unsafe. George Floyd never should have died in that way. No one deserves to die that way considering what they say he allegedly did. It's unfortunate that the protests are being overshadowed by the riots and the looting. ThIs sucks because I know that alot of the people that's doing this are not protesters. These are a group of people from all races and ethnicities whose soul purpose was to cause unnecessary chaos and they know the media won't focus on or show too much of the peaceful protests that are happening all over the world. I'm sad about the whole situation because the riots and looting seem to give people another reason to ignore the real underlying issue which is that many people (who happen to be black) have lost their lives unjustly at the hands of people who are supposed to serve and protect. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 16:47)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,306) (94,309) by Chicago Lamb from USA Andrew, Thank you. That had to be said. #Justice4Caution (Thursday 4 June 2020; 16:30)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,304) (94,308) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Of course it is morally outrageous. But one wrong cannot make morally justifiable another wrong. And criminals using the morally sound purpose of the protests as a screen for their criminality should be punished. Anyway, What More Can I Give was mooted by MJ as the sequel to We Are The World. Unfortunately, it's just nowhere near as good a song. We Are The World at Pavarotti and Friends is still my favourite group performance thing of all time. Mariah's high notes are possibly the most thrilling she has ever done (alongside the performance with Patti Labelle). I listen to it every week. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 15:55)

Re: What More Can I Give? (94,302) (94,307) by Bill from the UK Jade you always handle yourself with such grace and decorum. A class act indeed. Hope you're well. (Thursday 4 June 2020; 15:40)

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