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Why torture yourself (86,338) by Gee from U.S.A. (New York City) Honestly no matter what MC does personally or professionally some fans will be unhappy. But for me if everything she does annoys you or you feel like you have outgrown her and her music maybe it is time to move on and there is nothing wrong with that. No need to torture yourself anymore trying to hang around and your unhappy with MC and her choices. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 03:16)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,328) (86,337) by Special K from USA Spot on. Love this post Ribbon. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 03:14)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,323) (86,336) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada I'm not saying I don't enjoy things on Caution. Because I do. I am just saying I can understand why some fans do find the contrast between projects. Things are very different today as opposed to when she started. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 02:54)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,335) by Special K from USA Hmm, mmm. I actually agree with some points. I think Mariah like many other artists do sacrifice their artistry in varying degrees throughout the years. Times change. This ain't the 90's. Music evolves just like career artists do with the changing times but at the of the day I believe Mariah's integrity is in tact. With that said, it amazes me how folks think they know who the "real" Mariah Carey is. To me your expressing your own conflicting, self doubting insecurity baggage onto Mariah. You want her to be something she is not and that within itself is tragic coming from a fan. For the past 20 plus years Mariah has expressed over and over again how she had to fight the powers that be that wanted her to portray an image that she simply was not. I would think we as fans, especially us fans who have been there since the 90's would know that but most importantly accept that. I believe Mariah is very much in tune to who she is what she is about and has no problem expressing every facet of her being. I believe Caution is exactly the type of album that Mariah with her heart, body, and soul wanted to put out. Wake the hell up. Mariah is a very conflicted insecure person and that is okay. Aren't we all at times? Mariah is corny as hell. Loves Hello Kitty, Rainbows, and butterflies. Mariah is a freaky sex pot kitten. Mariah is a huge fan of hip hop. Mariah is bi racial. Mariah has a huge heart and there are many untold stories of her generosity. The problem is that there are certain folks/fans that will never, ever, in life accept the fact that Mariah is no longer the image they want her to be. Which is the innocent looking white girl running around in the corn fields with pigtails. When are y'all gonna learn you was fooled during those years? (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 02:49)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,327) (86,334) by B from USA I'm not suprised by the posters that have given Caution negative reviews, they're nothing if not consistent in their negativity. It perplexes me why if they no longer enjoy anything she does, do they continue to follow her or visit a fan site daily droning on and on about how her new music underwhelms and is subpar to her 90's recordings. Mariah released an 90's inspired album four years ago and it flopped so she took a different approach with her new album and it paid off. Caution has received some of the best notices of her 28 year career. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 02:38)

Re: Why torture yourself? (86,326) (86,333) by Special K from USA Amen to that. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 01:33)

Eddie (86,332) by Andrew from UK Did I miss your review? I am genuinely interested to read the main posters to this board, whether I agree or not. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 01:01)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,331) by Andrew from UK That was insightful and really brutally honest. Bloody hell. You remind me of my posts a few years ago. I can promise you such insight is wasted here. andrewjamesgold@gmail.com If I haven't pissed you off already, message me. Let's WhatsApp. What absolute truth. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 00:53)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,330) by Chicago Lamb from USA In Mariah's own words, "It ain't that serious, dahling." (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 00:51)

Re: Re: Giving me life (86,263) (86,277) (86,329) by Andrew from UK There's a comparison video on YouTube that led me to the video of the end adlibs once more. I didn't post it because Mariah is lipping the ending and it's not fair as a comparison because Mariah's OHN is the definitive version. It is perfection in every syllable. The "ooh yeah" on the ad libs is the most melty voice that made me fall in love with Mariah. I'm glad someone is feeling Christmas Mariah with me because... (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 00:46)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,328) by RibbonB from USA Very interesting long take on Ms. Carey. I can agree with some of it. But one of her great strengths is her versatility, and chameleon like qualities. Yet she still puts her signature, her mark on whatever she does. Prince was an ever changing, conflicted artist. Many of the best are. She definitely doesn't want to be stagnant. So called big words aside, her lyrical content has seemed strained, maybe a reflection of her state of mind, even as she says she's in a good space. She's being cautiously careless, which in itself is conflicted. But life is rarely concrete or cut from stone. 8th Grade is a minimalist poetic gem, with no clear details, she transports me at least to possibilities. Her voice shows subtle passion and the r and b groove is just enough. This song should be in radio now. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 00:13)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,327) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines You made some very good points, mostly with the part where Mariah's output, just like everybody else's, has been tailored to fit the current trends in music. This is something that happens to everyone, no matter how defiant to change a certain artist may be. They have to adapt and move with the times if they're aiming for longevity. And that's how Mariah has been. She has been described by several critics as a transient artist, and had she been the same way she was in the first 5 years of her career, she probably wouldn't have lasted as long and have the influence she still has today. What she can do with her voice is more dependent on her physical capabilities rather than the right material. But I feel she has increasingly written songs to adapt to her current physical capabilities at the time. So much so that it has become more and more apparent when she pushes herself beyond her limits (i.e. most of of the shouted belts on this album would have sounded less forced with her 2005 voice). So the staccato phrasing, the significantly less melismatic turns (if any at all these days), and the long lines that are now always sung with rapid fire delivery are done to fit the current state of her waning vocal ability. This fast, multisyllabic rapper-style talk-singing that first started as experimentation in Butterfly and has become a staple in every album since then, except that by Charmbracelet onwards you could tell that it was more of a necessity more than a choice. It felt like Mariah was looking for new ways to use her instrument to make up for the things she can no longer do as well as she could. Mariah has always been wiser than her years when it comes to writing. But one cannot compare Vision of Love to One Mo' Gen. No, the sex jam has not replaced the love song. For Caution, she justbdecided to go with the former more than the latter. As Cry. and Camouflage demonstrate in her last album, she still has it in her to write deep, meaningful, classic lyrics - when she wants to (all caps). Mariah has become increasingly more liberal at the way she choose to express herself, which is why songs like A No No and Portrait and GTFO can exist harmoniously in a Mariah album in 2018 when X-Girlfriend, Did I Do That? and the Heartbreaker (Remix) stuck out from the rest of Rainbow in 1999. As great as Mariah's mature writing was in her earlier years, it wasn't all that, as a lot of her material then often relied on platitudes and clichés, and most of it, though quite pretty and poetic, felt either very contrived (straight out of a Hallmark card) or oblivious to reality (There's Got To Be A Way, anyone?). She has always been a great storyteller but what's changed is that her elegant, more poetic phrases in The Roof (in which she first name-dropped a brand name) and Babydoll have become more and more specific, directly narrative and practical in nature than descriptive (Crybaby, Clown, We Belong Together, Betcha Gon' Know, The Art Of Letting Go, 8th Grade) and therefore less universal. But that's the magic of Mariah these days. Many people assume she has increasingly regressed in terms of maturity when it comes to her songwriting when it's obvious that she has just learned to express herself more freely in different ways and could still pull out something like Portrait when she wishes and put it beside Stay Long Love You. But yes, she could be more selective about the references she makes as they are are hit or miss, and some of them do leave a time stamp and are even cringeworthy (the Fritos one in Infinity has to be the worst, followed by Windex on Obsessed) and cheapen the song. She can definitely learn to edit herself and not dish them out just for the sake of being clever or funny. And lastly, her "fake" persona. I believe it's been the opposite that's actually happened. Now I do not know Mariah at all on a personal level. I only know her from the glimpses she allows us to see her through her interviewd and songs and so I am in no position to assume that this ghetto or hood image she has "adopted" since the Butterfly-Rainbow era is not the real her. But all I know is that Mariah during the earlier years of her career was not even allowed to have a personality of her own. She was restricted and suppressed, and true enough much of that reflected in her music. Slick and sanitized, it was Tommy's version of Mariah that shone through her material up until 1995, when she really started to get rebellious creatively. I have no idea how she was raised before that, but she did grow up in a broken family in New York and had spent much of her childhood in and around a neighborhood where hip hop was born, so the chances of that influencing her are impossible to ignore. She is an avid hip hop fan. It's been the R&B and soul greats that she was first exposed to, but she loved rap music and was in New York in its inception. It's not like she turned into some hoodrat overnight and decided to stick with it. Eloquent expression and a prim and proper, demure demeanor can also come from any woman who is has a ghetto attitude. These contradictions can simply be different facets of someone's personality. Let us not be myopic about this. Mariah did love to party and socialize in her teenage years - she even smoked then so we cannot simply peg her as this very conservative, almost sexless and inoffensive lady that some executive forced her to be during the first half of the 90s. If there's any fake persona she has put on though the years, that would be her over the top diva and celebrity antics that have taken a life of its own and have eventually overshadowed her, and not her street image. Now that profanity has fully and unapologetically made its uncensored way into her music (the on-record cussing started way back in 2002 by the way), that in no way means she's fully realized this ghetto "façade". It only means she doesn't care too much anymore that her occasionally potty mouth started to really bleed into her songwriting. It's unnecessary and not for everyone, but it is what it is. All the personality changes you have mentioned feel more like a part of Mariah's ongoing evolution (quite a gradual, organic one at that) in growing more comfortable in her own skin rather than a mask she had to suddenly wear to stand out or to have a certain image. Mariah's street persona never felt forced, at least to me. The Fantasy Remix was the first sign of the cracks showing. It may have come as a shock to most then, but how it's progressed over time has always seemed authentic. And the sexy image and sexy songs that pretty much define her and her output especially in this latest album shouldn't really come as a surprise from the same woman who debuted at #1 in 1997 with Honey, a euphemism for a certain male bodily fluid. If there's anything we can really complain about, it's that she's become less and less subtle in her expression of her sexuality to the point that it now often replaces her talent and musical contributions as talking points in the media. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 00:11)

Why torture yourself? (86,326) by Todd from Melbourne, Australia If somebody really likes Sprite, it baffles me completely why that person would keep buying can after can of Coke, and then being disappointed that it's not Sprite. (Wednesday 21 November 2018; 00:05)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,325) by Will from Australia While I do think Mariah has earned the right to sing the alphabet backwards through a helium voice if she likes, some of the points you have raised, especially the comparison between her writing from those days to these days, are quite interesting and I praise you for being so honest with your opinion. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 23:42)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,324) by george golden from uk She has moved on from pop music. Leave Mariah alone and move on with your life. Bye. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 22:39)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,323) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada I can't deny that playing Caution is not like playing her earlier material. The music world in general terms is lacking lyric and vocal content with substance. Most of the music I listen to today isn't radio popular it's singer/songwriter or independent artists. If I wasn't a Mariah fan, I probably wouldn't have much of a sense of what the music industry is doing now to be trendy. Lol. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 22:22)

Re: A No No feat. Cardi B and Li'l Kim (86,298) (86,322) by 123 from USA I agree Elena and can I say respectfully. You fine girl. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 22:11)

Re: One Mo' Gen (86,257) (86,321) by Billy from Greece Loved your message, enwar, and I totally get where you're coming from. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 21:50)

Caution (86,320) by Tameka walker from United states Hey lambs. I just want to share with you what happened to me when I tried to get Mariah 's album. I went around 7 am to get the album at Walmart but they did not have it out yet. This was Friday the 16th. So I went back around two they still didn't have it so I found this guy that works for Walmart and he had to go in the back where they had it. I waited two hours for him to go through the boxes and then I was able to buy the album. I think if it happened to me I tend to think that this experience could have happened to some one else. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 21:48)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,319) by ADAM from USA First off Chris1992, what a beautiful, detailed assessment of Mariah's latest album and overall status. It was very heartfelt and interesting to read. I felt exactly the way you did probably in 2008. However now, I feel the opposite. I think the Mariah we see and hear now is the one she always was. I think Caution is finally the album she always wanted to create. She's a master lyricist and yes her voice is gone. However, she's learned how to adapt her lower register which is still beautiful to fit the mold of today's climate of music. As much as we all love her golden voice, no one is in more pain over its demise than Mariah herself. I can't imagine the guilt she must feel over her voice. However, I've learned to let it go and enjoy her music for what it is. Everything she does at this point is always a choice. It not a necessity. She will eventually not be here anymore and I want to remember and enjoy her for what she was and is. I personally love the Caution album. The production is great and seamless. I never skip any song. I think its what Memoirs tried to be. I hope she continues to let Jay Z and Roc Nation guide her. Tommy Mottola was right in his autobiography. I remember a section when he said he always encouraged MC to produce alot of work and stay in the studio and be with the right people because his work as an executive he knew that all artists hit a creative wall and no longer produce their best work so basically strike while the irons hot. Her knew her voice/talent was in its prime and worked overtime to protect that. I'm so glad Tommy was in her life when he was because if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have her best work, let alone the Christmas album. It's amazing how many points Tommy was behind in her career which made Mariah the superstar she is. Christmas album, Hero, Walter Afansieff, etc. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 21:38)

Re: Caution next single should be? (86,303) (86,318) by B from USA I don't think Caution is going disappear a week or two after its release. I think when people that don't follow her career that closely go to Spotify to stream AIWFCIY they'll discover Caution and give it a listen. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 21:35)

Mariah at New Years festivities (86,316) by T from USA Does everyone realize that new years eve is on a Thursday night this year. So if she is planning to return to the stage one more time at times square to debut A No No feat. Cardi B and Lil Kim it will be available to download right at the beginning of Friday morning and if there is a video ready to go we could be looking at a #1 debut the first week of January. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 21:08)

Promo with SNL (86,315) by Tyler from USA I'll start by saying I am extremely pleased with MC's team and promotion this era. Everything from the shows, her outfits, interviews and performances are close to near perfection. The only thing I wish were added was hosting and performing on SNL. She is coming a cross extremely likable, relatable and humble. Her sense of humor is really showing with the dialing back of the divaness. I think SNL would of been an excellent platform to show her sense of humor and to jokingly make fun of herself. I could see so many of the skits going viral. Can you imagine a GTFO skit? Roc Nation needs to make this happen. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 21:04)

Mariah looks happy (86,314) by TheOne from UK Mariah looks and acts like the Mariah from the late 90s. She's sounding mature, the right amount of playful. She's not going on tangents. She doesn't look uncomfortable in interviews. I feel like she's found herself again. The real Mariah seems to be present. I love seeing her in interviews atm. So proud of how she's turned a corner on a personal level. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 20:33)

Re: A lengthy meditation on the album (86,306) (86,313) by anonymous from UK Actually feel it's an excellent post, and I read the whole thing. Thank you for taking the time to write it. But, and of course there's always a but, I have to respond. The world at large right now seems to celebrate superficiality, where real emotions, feelings and thoughts are derided and are marketed as uncool, unsexy, and frankly things to be scared of. The way the world is going is like what everyone is scared of - the human race worries robots and tech will overtake the world, so before we lose control and that happens, we'll make the humans the emotionless robots first, driven only by consumption, uncaring to the multitude of emotion that makes a human being, well, a human being. Today, it's more about loving yourself and the things that make you feel good, even for a fleeting moment, even at the expense of others. It made me feel good, so tough luck, baby. The media and the arts seem intent to turn us into selfish, self-centred narcissists with no greater agenda than to self-preserve. So either you turn into a heartless machine or you perish. Mariah is a deeply feeling, emotional and responsive human being, and that just doesn't sell anymore. It's not what the powers that be want us to be. They have realised they can make more money, control more people by stripping them of emotion and replacing it with crass, unfeeling, ultimately meaningless exchange of ideas. Very precious little is real anymore. It has been given over to people pretending they are always happy, optimistic, fulfilled people. I guess ultimately what I'm saying with this post is, as much as you, I am sad Mariah can't be herself truly now, but if she were to be, she'd truly have no audience. Not that she does now anyway, but I think the way she is reacting is an overall reaction most of the human race is feeling toward on one hand being encouraged to acknowledge mental health and feelings yet at the same time being told any negative emotion or feeling is scary, bad and somehow wrong. Just my two cents, but again I loved your post and I feel the same as you about many aspects of it. (Tuesday 20 November 2018; 20:31)

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