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Re: New album (92,133) (92,139) by Andrew from the United Kingdom "With You and A No No were... no We Belong Together or Shake It Off, but they were much better than and stood out from many of the songs that were released at that time." In your opinion. The majority of the music purchasing world disagreed with you. "A No No" was hardly anything special and, suffice is to say, Mariah has been rehashing her sound for a long time so I think the wider public does not care if Song X Part 7 is released. Parts 1 to 3 were fine and all paid for. "Besides, quality has always been more of a bonus than a prerequisite for a chart-topping song." I am almost certain you would not have said the same thing during the 90's when Mariah ruled the Hot 100. Or during TEOM. Nonsense. "But ageism still plays into this somehow." Instead of saying "somehow", explain *how*. I hope you do. But I have already read ahead and, well, you do not. "Cher's Believe... happened at a period when the listening public was more welcoming of artists in their 40s and 50s and hence were still able to chart more often than they can today." Really not worth the electricity it's beaming out of my screen on. People, for the most part, don't decide to become music artists and shoot for the big time in their mid to late life. They start out younger, bold, fresh and driven, and, if they reach success and don't throw it away or become jaded, and attain the financial prize of longevity, they reach their middle to later years having the luxury of being able to continue with output. I would say that is true of any era. There is nothing to show that this is any less true today than it was 20 years. Michael Buble sells reasonably well for an old timer in his, that's right, mid 40's. "The success of these hits..." All very interesting but not relevant and kind of muddled. "As for sexism, let's just throw in a bunch of random facts." Again, I've read ahead but I like your confidence in using the word "facts" at this point. "It's gonna be a more difficult road for a woman who isn't seen constantly near a piano or a guitar to be taken seriously." You have, I think changed 2 comparators instead of 1 which is, on the face of it, a manipulation of a debate. The question should be: is a woman who does not play an instrument viewed as less praiseworthy than a man who does not play an instrument? I see nothing to support this. "Men, on the other hand, are almost automatically assumed to write and produce their own material." I thought you were going to do "facts"? This is conjecture. Where is the evidence? Do you have results of a poll? "Very few women producers are ever awarded, let alone nominated for their work, and that's clearly not just because there are less of them than their male counterparts." "Facts", please? I do miss them. And logic, for that matter. For if there are significantly less members of group B than of group A and it is fairly assumed that talent is evenly distributed across both groups, it is axiomatic that more people in group A would be recognised and awarded than group B. You could question as to why group B is significantly smaller in number and debate whether or not attempting to bolster its membership would be realistic, necessary or productive but it's not relevant here. "But for every woman that makes it big, trust that there already is a 'man behind the woman' piece already written to help justify her success." Where are these "facts" you were going to talk of? This is just conjecture, again. And nonsensical, again. You can't just insert the word "trust" and think it makes something convincing. All artists' rises to the top are charted, discussed, broadcast and published to promote the artists' output and increase sales - often by the artists themselves. The public likes a backstory, whatever the backstory is. I would never have heard of Scooter Braun 10 years ago were it not for a young artist he discovered and pushed into stardom. Mariah's very first song was about her personal struggle. I believe she also had no shoes upon her feet. "The gender pay gap also exists in the music industry." If you read a lot of economists, they do not think it exists at all. "When it comes to the top players, the biggest record deals in history (upwards $150 million) are all signed by male artists." I seem to recall Mariah Carey once signing the biggest record deal of all time. Followed by Whitney Houston. Let's go for the most recent biggest signing: Adele signed a $130m record deal in 2016. Nobody has beaten that figure since. Madonna signed a $120m dollar deal in 2012 (and she's no spring chicken, despite drooling into the mouths of young men who were not even born when she was their age (would the press be so blasé were a 62yo man sleeping with a 25yo woman? I think not, and that is sexist, right?)). But higher than this you have the likes of Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, Jay Z and U2. Were Bieber on the list I would be on your side. But to pick $150m dollars so that women just fell short of the mark smacks of playing games. "So if you still think that sexism and ageism are merely convenient excuses that fans of affected stars tell themselves to sleep at night, then sure, you're entitled to that opinion. That's what's true to you and that's all the validation you need." Validation? Has your thesaurus got a virus? Sexism and ageism naturally exist. Indeed, to name a male artist and say that he has only been, or would otherwise not have been, recognized over a particular woman because he is, or were he not, male, is, in itself, definitively sexist. It would need factual support or it would, to most moral standards, be morally unpraiseworthy. The issue is that claims of ageism and sexism are too often made without merit, are frequently based on hyperbole and can simply play fast and loose with truths. They seem to increasingly be made with convenience in petulant annoyance at things which are completely natural, and, as such, shouldn't be seen as issues. That is to say, some people like you and some people don't and, further, as you continue to age, young people tend not to want to associate themselves with you. Because you're not "cool" and they want people to whom they feel they can relate. Just like all the current older people did when they were younger. Just as your parents and their parents did. What is natural and not bothersome should not invoke a faux fury. "But you also can't fault the fans who notice and acknowledge the increasing evidence pointing to the contrary and that Mariah is not an exception to that." Evidence? Must have missed it. "This goes for any female artist out there who is past her prime, a former chart titan, and still doesn't get the credit she deserves in the music industry after all of her years in it." Mariah doesn't get credit? Oh, for the love of facts. To reiterate, and not to be too "reductive": the main radio stations are not "ageist" in any kind of morally reprehensible form of the word. They play the music younger people (or, if you will, the majority of the record buying public) will purchase - music from fresh new artists with new sounds and new ideas; artists who are, therefore, mostly young. And in 10 or 20 years time perhaps they'll be on websites dedicated to those artists the artist they have journeyed through all that time with, well into the early hours of the morning, bashing away at their keyboards, trying to convince the world it has gone totally mad. (Saturday 4 January 2020; 03:32)

Re: New album (92,133) (92,138) by Timothy from USA This was really well written. Especially the section on the rare late career hits of those other artists. (Saturday 4 January 2020; 01:14)

Re: Article: Carey struggling to sell tickets in Las Vegas (92,130) (92,137) by Timothy from USA Smh. Vegas shows typically sell the bulk of tickets the day before or day of as visitors make selections on entertainment upon arrival, based upon hotel concierge recommendations and local promotion. There was so much factually incorrect about that article that it would take too long to dissect. There are complex algorithms used to anticipate demand for artist shows and if there was any real threat that Mariah's show would lose money, Ceasar's would not renew her. She is on the same pre-sale pace of Celine her last time around. To compare a residency show in a tourist town to a national tour is not apples to apples. The author seemed biased and pot stirring. (Saturday 4 January 2020; 00:55)

Re: Article: Carey struggling to sell tickets in Las Vegas (92,127) (92,136) by We are Lambily from USA I honestly want her to focus on other ventures but she will sell a lot more tickets as we get closer to the date. Work on that album, Mariah needs documentary’s [sic]. The new generation has to know Mariah in order for them to love Mariah and the older generation gotta fall back in love with her. Her image has gotten better but we need more. Her team gotta book her on networks she has never been on. I’m done with the same media routine. I’m hopeful for the future but miss Melissa gotta work harder than ever before. (Saturday 4 January 2020; 00:44)

Re: I Had A Vision Of Love (92,132) (92,135) by Rashidi Rahim Rick from Malaysia Yup. I don't like the title as well. Too much "the woe is me" type of thing. I'd prefer if she named it "My All" meaning that she gave her all story, honest and brutal, in the book. (Saturday 4 January 2020; 00:29)

Re: I Had A Vision Of Love (92,132) (92,134) by Dove from United States I like that title because I interpret that song being about her life and music career. She envisioned making music for a living and the universe/God gave her the desire of her heart and in abundance. Everything that has happened in her life needed to happen and took her to where she was meant to be. She's grateful for all of it. One of my favorite lines is: And now I know I've succeeded in finding the place I'd conceived. (Saturday 4 January 2020; 00:09)

Re: New album (92,087) (92,133) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines While I do agree that the ageism and sexism are terms that tend to be carelessly thrown around more often than they should be, to imply that applying them to Mariah is merely an example of bitter fans blaming everything and everyone else to make her look like the victim all the time is just reductive. Let's talk about quality first. If everything was down to the quality of output, then Mariah shouldn't have had any problems competing with the younger artists and much of their comparatively subpar output that were filling the top 10 when With You and A No No were released. Those songs were no We Belong Together or Shake It Off, but they were much better than and stood out from many of the songs that were released at that time. Besides, quality has always been more of a bonus than a prerequisite for a chart-topping song. You said it yourself, the radio plays by demand to cater to a certain age demographic - that is true. That listeners would tend to gravitate towards artists closer to their age - that also is true. That a genuinely great song released by the right artist at the right time will resonate with the public and be a hit - that's true (although not always what happens). But ageism still plays into this somehow. Take Cher's Believe - that excellent song's success was, while phenomenal, clearly a rare thing that also happened at a period when the listening public was more welcoming of artists in their 40s and 50s and hence were still able to chart more often than they can today, where "more often" still isn't saying a lot. The success of these hits by older artists were also a result of luck, perfect timing, spot-on promotion or benefited from collaborating with younger, then more popular artists. Aretha's last hit was with George Michael, who could do no wrong in 1987. Barbra's last hit was a off of a soundtrack for her successful self-directed and produced movie in 1996, Elton's last major hit was a remake of an old song as a tribute to the beloved late Princess Diana. It took a virtual father-daughter duet remix of Unforgettable (uncommon at the time) for the Nat King Cole song to become a chart hit and be showered with Grammys 4 decades later. J.Lo's last hit largely owed its success to its interpolation of Lambada, its popular music video and her AI stint. Believe was quite possibly the first mainstream pop song to incorporate the blatant use of Autotune, which was new technology and a fresh sound at the time. Michael's last posthumous hit was a shelved Paul Anka composition redone as a duet with Justin Timberlake. Madonna needed a Bond soundtrack in 2002, a cleverly used ABBA sample in 2005, Justin Timberlake and Timbaland in 2008 and Nicki Minaj and M.I.A. as well as a Superbowl headlining deal in 2012 to get her most recent major chart hits. Most of the audience responsible for making Old Town Road the blockbuster that it was had no idea who Billy Ray Cyrus was before the song became a smash. AIWFCIY is a holiday standard that could have taken even longer to reach the top spot if not for streaming and the progressive perennial promotion it has received. This is not to take away from these tracks' merits as hits or their respective artists as hitmakers - it just shows that these songs haven't exactly been the usual regular releases from their artists, and the fact that they were few and far in between shows that their successes were of a rare, special kind. It can't be coincidental that the only thing that these hits have in common are the fact that their artists were over 40 when at the time of their release/resurgence. As for sexism, let's just throw in a bunch of random facts. Men are more easily inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame while it takes women several years of (questioned) nominations just for a select few to get in. Paul McCartney and other male songwriters are more frequently acknowledged than Mariah who has written at least 95% of her charting songs. It's gonna be a more difficult road for a woman who isn't seen constantly near a piano or a guitar to be taken seriously. Men, on the other hand, are almost automatically assumed to write and produce their own material. Very few women producers are ever awarded, let alone nominated for their work, and that's clearly not just because there are less of them than their male counterparts. When male artists are on top, less attention is paid towards the machine that helped propel them there and they are pretty much painted as self-made successes. But for every woman that makes it big, trust that there already is a "man behind the woman" piece already written to help justify her success. We of all fans should know that. If Mariah didn't have such a standout, rare prodigious talent, then she likely would have been lumped together with all the other female artists whose achievements have been credited to every other thing first before their actual talent and creativity. The gender pay gap also exists in the music industry. When it comes to the top players, the biggest record deals in history (upwards $150 million) are all signed by male artists. So if you still think that sexism and ageism are merely convenient excuses that fans of affected stars tell themselves to sleep at night, then sure, you're entitled to that opinion. That's what's true to you and that's all the validation you need. But you also can't fault the fans who notice and acknowledge the increasing evidence pointing to the contrary and that Mariah is not an exception to that. This goes for any female artist out there who is past her prime, a former chart titan, and still doesn't get the credit she deserves in the music industry after all of her years in it. (Friday 3 January 2020; 23:57)

I Had A Vision Of Love (92,132) by Will from Australia I've read online that the memoir is called "I Had A Vision Of Love" and is due in September 2020 but I hope that's not true as the title is a bit meh for me (Friday 3 January 2020; 23:46)

Re: New album (92,126) (92,131) by Dove from United States You're right, marketing and money does make a huge difference. Otherwise how can we explain Gweneth Paltrow winning for Shakespeare in Love? (Friday 3 January 2020; 23:45)

Re: Article: Carey struggling to sell tickets in Las Vegas (92,127) (92,130) by Dove from United States I agree. It's time to take a break from Vegas. (Friday 3 January 2020; 23:30)

Duets (female) idea list (92,129) by Dove from United States Leona Lewis - #Beautiful JoJo - Underneath the Stars Christina Aguilera - Can't Take That Away Beyonce - Did I Do That Adele - Forever Ariana Grande - Migrate Normani - Prisoner Kelly Clarkson - Thirsty Loren Allred - And You Don't Remember Mary J. Blige - Dedicated Jennifer Hudson - All I've Ever Wanted Gaga - Side Effects Celine Dion - Outside Toni Braxton - After Tonight Lauryn Hill - I Wish You Well Brandy - Get Your Number Katharine McPhee - Your Girl Pink - Close My Eyes Alicia Keys - Giving Me Life Not the greatest singers of all time but still entertaining and very successful: Gwen Stefani - Money ($*/...) Taylor Swift - Meteorite Rihanna - One Mo Gen Britney - Ribbon (Friday 3 January 2020; 23:28)

Re: New album (92,120) (92,128) by Bobby A from United States If she does come out with a new album in 2020 competition for radio airplay and album sales are going to be more than in 2019. Sza, Justin Beiber, Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Frank Ocean, Dua Lipa, Max, Kesha, Brandy, Beyonce, Monica, Sam Smith, Normani, Ariana Grande and many more are dropping new albums this year. I forgot that Adele is dropping a new album this year too. 2020 is going to be hot for new music. (Friday 3 January 2020; 22:35)

Article: Carey struggling to sell tickets in Las Vegas (92,127) by RibbonB from USA Might be a good time to take a break and for her to craft new music. She does have all those extra dependents to clothe and feed though, so we might see the same cycle as the last few years. (Friday 3 January 2020; 22:17)

Re: New album (92,125) (92,126) by We are Lambily from USA Caution's streaming and Caution's radio plays are unfortunately not on par. It's been streamed almost over 400 million times yet I hardly heard it on the stations. It's one of the reasons r&b has died a bit, the pop stations don't play those records anymore. They are left to ac and urban stations. Which is okay, but music wasn't this restricted back in the days, the big labels pay a lot of money to get there artists played, look at Lizzo. With the right team willing to spend you can have your old songs become a hit. People are simple, they can hear a song too many times and they will love it. How many of us have hated a song we heard on the radio and after a while you love it? (Friday 3 January 2020; 21:36)

Re: New album (92,109) (92,125) by enwar00 from usa And also annoying. (Friday 3 January 2020; 21:19)

New album idea (92,124) by Dove from United States Even though I love Mariah's original songs sometimes they're so ahead of their time that I don't fully appreciate them until years later. I kinda want familiar and gimmicky right now. I feel like it's faster to put together and gets attention. I feel like radio doesn't play her because the majority of the younger audience isn't interested. Just like on the singing competition shows, the younger contestants usually win. Honestly, I get it. Even though I'm sure Tony Bennet and Barbra Streisand are super talented, they sound old timey to me and I'm not really interested. They're before my time. I feel like we need something that will catch people's attention so I'm on board with the duets album but only with women, and only great singers who have been popular, and (most) who were obviously inspired by Mariah. Leona Lewis, JoJo, Christina Aguilera, Beyonce, Adele, Ariana Grande, Kelly Clarkson, Mary J. Blige, Jennifer Hudson, Gaga, Celine Dion, Toni Braxton, Lauryn Hill, Brandy, Katharine McPhee, Pink, Alicia Keys, etc. Not super popular anymore but I love Fantasia's voice. I love Jewel's voice too but not sure how it would sound with Mariah's. I mentioned this before but I think it's a good idea so I'll mention it again: remake some of her songs into songs for God. If One Sweet Day becomes a #1 hit it could be the longest running #1 hit again. (Sidenote: I know Christina Aguilera over-sings sometimes and she said negative things about Mariah going crazy but she was young back then. I'm sure she regrets it. I'm not a huge fan of hers because she seems snobby and acts like she's better than everyone but she is one of the better and more popular singers of our generation.) (Friday 3 January 2020; 20:51)

Re: New album (92,106) (92,123) by MusicfanJ from Germany Barbra Streisand is an artist. She has an unique voice. Her voice is very special. Even if you don't like her songs or music genre, Barbra is great. (Friday 3 January 2020; 19:47)

Re: New album (92,103) (92,122) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Insightful. Think you're probably spot on. (Friday 3 January 2020; 19:39)

Re: New album (92,108) (92,121) by Andrew from the United Kingdom It's just propaganda ranted by the latest teenage stan who thinks that unrelenting and unending support that sinks into embellishment at best and lies at worse must be heard at all times. I've been reading the board for about 10 years and it is a constant truth that there is a childlike emotionally unstable and intellectually devoid propogandist present at all times. As soon as one exhausts themselves (or hopefully gets a grip) they disappear to be replaced by another. There have been so many. They come and go. (Friday 3 January 2020; 19:37)

Re: New album (92,095) (92,120) by Andrew from the United Kingdom I should do comedy about as much as you should do English comprehension, dear. If you reread my post I said that it was not the radio stations that were ageist for they only play what their listeners want to hear. It is primarily young people who listen to new music and new artists. Thus that music is played back to them. Case in point: this website is primarily (going from most of the representations made by the posters here) consumed by people in their 30s to 50s. Essentially living for an ageing artist long since past her prime. My parents only listen to artists mainly from their younger days in which their artists were in their prime. They listen to radio stations that play this music. Noteably, they are incredibly unlikely to purchase new music. That is fine and normal. They are not of bad character. They are not themselves "ageist". And nor are the stations playing the music they want to hear to them. Your sarcasm only serves to highlight a lack of intelligence and comprehension. I invite you to park your excitable emotions and take a more reasoned approach to life. (Friday 3 January 2020; 19:29)

Re: New album (92,095) (92,119) by Bill from the UK Believe would have been a hit had it been sung by a 50 year old or a 20 year old. It is simply just a great song. Cher's name and delivery is of course not to be overlooked, but a good song is a good song is a good song. (Friday 3 January 2020; 19:18)

Re: New album (92,103) (92,118) by jaker20 from US It is negative and morbid. She's not in retirement home. It's ageist and an insult to anyone working in their 50s and beyond, which makes your comment also unrealistic. 2 to 3 albums is you proposing she should retire in 5 to 10 years. With her level of career, and success that is highly unlikely. But you seem to suggest that's all she's capable of. Music and singing is her life and passion. That is what she is, and artists will do their passion as long as blood flows through their veins. Again, the Streisand example. She slowed down for a while and who also got interested in other things. But that doesn't stop from delivering 15+ albums to this date and I'm sure she's got a lot more to give. Are you saying Mariah isn't capable of that? Mariah and her voice is adapting as we have seen in Caution. Just like everyone else on earth, we adapt with time and age. (Friday 3 January 2020; 18:08)

Re: New album (92,111) (92,117) by Musti from UK She's definitely a fan. I remember her singing the opening line from The Way We Were back when she did the Homecoming Special in 1999. She also said this about Barbra. (Friday 3 January 2020; 17:31)

Re: New album (92,106) (92,116) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada In addition to Barbra's credentials that Eric listed, Mariah herself pays homage to her song "Evergreen" in "Giving Me Life". I love Mariah, but there is absolutely no need to put down the work of other artists - even if said artist is not your cup of tea. I would not be sad if Mariah fans could completely stop doing that. It is not cool. (Friday 3 January 2020; 17:23)

Re: New album (92,105) (92,115) by Musti from UK I'm happy to wait another decade for the jazz album. But she should definitely do it. I've always pictured her doing a tribute album to Sarah Vaughan. It's criminal how this lady's talent is so overlooked. Her songs from the 1940s alone are enough to become an instant fan. Interlude, It Might As Well Be Spring, I'm Glad There's You, Tenderly, etc. Plus this gorgeous song. Depressing I know, but still breath-taking. I'd love to hear M's take on these songs. (Friday 3 January 2020; 17:17)

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