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Difference in opinions (38,728) by Joe from United Kingdom It's good to see that I wasn't the only one who thinks that Mariah doesn't really owe anybody an explanation about her voice. I actually for a minute thought I was the only one, but at the same time it's good to see there are people who think otherwise. I enjoy this message board because some of us actually have constructive criticisms and different things to say. If we all acted like everything was rainbows and sunshine, it would become stale very fast. I don't think it's a case of people bashing Mariah, some people are just curious about certain things or are just stating an opinion, good or bad. As much as I might put up a post and someone may respond in dissagreement, at the same time they do also make valid points that I can actually agree with it, works both ways. I don't feel the need to tell people, well if you don't like it don't come here or don't read it. It's not that serious, it's just a different opinion, everybody has one. Just saying. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 21:31)

Jaker20 / vocal damage admission (38,726) by PJW from The U.K. Jaker20, not only was it evident that you'd not properly read or processed my thoughts, but your response is actually aggressive and offensive, not just to me but many others on the board. We all have opinions and the right to share them without being spoken to in that manner. Eric, to be honest I'm surprised you've allowed it to be posted and with all due respect, I use this message as an official complaint/flag of Jakers comment. Back to the topic. If I'm honest with myself, she's already known as the diva with the damaged voice. Trust me when I say that despite whatever sympathetic review you'll read, today's news is tomorrows chip paper and the general public will soon forget the physical injuries and see that the voice is indeed damaged. Infact, please lets not even kid ourselves. The fact that they all scream about her lipping is evidence of their awareness, they're not stupid. Who does Mariah think shes' kidding by not being honest about it? As I said, (some of us) as fans listen with our heart not our head. Non fans listen objectively and it's plain for all to see and so the continued marketing of the golden voice is a flawed project that'll ultimatley fail. Singing songs like Looking In is a good tactical move. It uses mostly her head voice, still her strongest, it's slow so allows breath and can give an impression of vocal strength and it conjures up emotion and thus loyalty amongst fans. But the chest notes were weak and like in the CB era, whisper tactics can't last long. I shouldn't have to write disclaimers, but I will as as usual on this board words and opinions are put in peoples mouths/misconstrued and I'd rather be clear and save the hassle. I don't want Mariah to make a press release, twitter announcement, an album liner note or stand on the top floor of the penthouse declaring her voice is damaged. I just dont want false marketing, false claims, lipping or poor arrangement. I agree with other users when they say that no, the voice hasn't completely gone and there's alot of potential for it to come back to a certain level and sound stunning and also that she should work within her boundaries. I'd be more than happy and believe me, I'm grateful everytime she does. Christmas at the White House was stunning, even if she didn't finish the song properly because it was genuine, real, professional and to the best of her ability at the time. The general public is not convinced by her lipping or even her statements, it's glaringly obvious to all. If I had a pound for every time an acquaintance has volunteered up the information "but she can't sing anymore, can she?", I'd be writing this from a beach somewhere. I just ask for honesty and respect to us, the loyal fans, at the very least. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 20:51)

Re: Jaker20 (38,725) by Badr from USA I applaud constructive criticism, and I'm sure Mariah herself does too. I believe it helps people grow, evolve, and improve. However, some people take it too far, and turned this site into a public Mariah Carey bashing site. I remember someone asking if "Mariah's rhinoplasties affected the quality of her voice". Someone else claimed that "the excessive drinking, the parties, they all contributed to the decline of her voice". I also read a post claiming that she was old, and that was the reason for her "declined" ability to sing live. I didn't know so many intimate friends of her post here. In regards to her voice, I've seen her perform live 4 times, including one in 2010. I noticed her voice is still strong and versatile. Mariah will not always sound perfect, but eventually she shuts haters up with astonishing performances. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 20:26)

Complaining (38,724) by Gilbert from USA All of us, including myself has to shut the mouf... I just hope you found some humor in that because some of us bicker back and forth and at the end of the day most of us will buy the album/music once it releases anyway. So either we buy her music, she lip-syncs, or whatever it is she does, we will either continue to support her or we don't. She is already well off whether we continue to be fans or not. That's just how I see it, I can complain as much as I wanted to during the E=MC2 album. IMO I think that album is way better then the over rated TEOM. I just was annoyed and I got rid of some of her things but here comes Memoirs and I still bought it so everyone has their moments of disappointment. Yet most of us still stick around and those who are no longer fans that's okay too. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 20:23)

RadChad / self-rightious religious fanatics attitues (38,723) by Edward from USA RadChad, considering some of the things I said, and after reading your post addressed to PJW, I now agree that she shouldn't publicly say that her voice is damaged or less poweful. You made a very valid point, she then would be known as the diva who can't sing anymore, and those who still have hope of a huge improvement would be devastated. Even though your post wasn't directed at me, I appreciate the fact that you didn't come across as if you were an angry self-rightious religious fanatic whose idol has been attacked. I do definitely agree on the fact that this is the time for her to do something serious to maintain her voice in consistent shape. I don't think it is a lost cause. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 19:23)

Dear jaker20 (38,722) by Joachim Agerup Løkkevik from Norway Your [...] is absoloutly my favourite [...] on MCArchives of all time. It's like you wrote my [...] and posted them here, but you are much funnier than me. I have never in my life read a more spot on description of a superstar and Mariah Carey as a brand. Mariah is a brand, let's face it. And since I work at one of the biggest clothing brands in the world, I know something about promotion and hiding the truth. Is that just simply the game? Does anyone [...] believe in everything they hear on whathever medium? Let's face it guys, Mariah's voice is stil great, nobody can sing her songs, not even now that her voice is a bit lower and raspier. Because she has such an [...] tone in her voice that no one can match. And if she wants to be on top of the [...], she has to sell her brand, how can many here think she can have another number 1 if she doesn't speak to the masses. We lambs know when it's for real, and [...] Mariah, she gives us real moments all the time. Have you ever heard Beyonce, Rhianna, Lady Gaga or Madonna talk negative about their talent? No, and I don't think Mariah will do that anytime soon. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 18:57)

MC does not owe any of you an explanation, none (38,721) by jaker20 from US MC should explain to you what's happening to her voice? She has to be honest with you? How sad are you? Here's a concept. You don't like her, don't buy her songs and concert tickets. It's very very simple. If you have gone into the deep end thinking everything you buy is some kind of corporate investment, here's another concept, MC is not real estate, soap or shoes. She's a human being. If she goes into an interview and say she's better than before, you know, kind of like every performer have to say to sell tickets. Do you instantly believe it? If she photoshop her album cover, do you believe she's that physically perfect? If your answer to these questions is yes then you need to go to the doctor asap. Now if her management calls her The Voice, do you believe it's because she's really The Voice? Or maybe she's promoting that TV show by the same name? Hello, its advertising. Advertising is not about honesty. Sad reality, check for your fandom, but that's fact. It is made to sell something. I never believed MC is The Voice, because you know what, it's a corny and ludicrous claim. Do I love MC's voice more than anyone, do I love her songs? Of course. Some of you just need to go out sometimes. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 15:55)

You invested on MC's voice? (38,720) by jaker20 from US What kind of logic is that? Do some of you even read what you type? To compare MC with commodities and products as if you're talking about soap, shampoo and false advertising? How disgusting. You are talking about a person here, a human being, that alone makes a universe of a difference. This is the problem with fanatics, some forget there's a line between fandom and property. If you think MC is your investment, than there is something very wrong about you and your life in general. How sad. Go out and smell the roses. I am one of MC's vocal critics here when something is off, but to talk about MC as if she's your property is stretching towards plain ludicrous. MC does not owe you anything. I have said this many times before. MC is not only The Voice. Do you guys get that? She is not only The Voice. She is also an artist. You have to repeat that statement many times over in your head. She sells songs, a seat in her concerts and other products and she sells her through her voice. Do you get that? A seat on her concert venue, not her voice itself. Her voice is not the product itself. How difficult is that to understand? Remember when Barbra Streisand once said on Oprah that some people talk about singers as if they're objects. MC is not an object. Some of the posts here are utterly disgusting. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 15:42)

O/T Mariah needs your support (38,719) by Hana from UK She is behind Beyonce and Rihanna. Come on guys, make sure you've voted for We Belong Together and pass the message on. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 14:50)

MC voice / PJW (38,717) by RadChad from United States PJW, you've made some valid points that I can agree with: I would say that MC should definitely give up drinking alcohol. Period. It does absolutely nothing for her voice, but dries it out. She should also re-train her vocals and rehearse more, because for some reason she always seems like she's "winging" it. However I disagree that she should publicly announce or admit she "lost her voice" for many reasons. One being that she has already acknowledged her nodules and the fact that her voice is very sensitive. Also I agree (with some on the board) that once she speak those words ("my voice is shot or damaged"), then that's it. She will be always labeled as the diva that can't sing anymore (and people would only see that), the only way she'll be able to shake it is if her voice returns to its early to mid nineties condition. I can see the haters now. "Mariah can not sing anymore at all, even she admitted that. So how can you consider her the best?" Not a good look. Believe it or not, there's still some people in the world that feels she still has it and can still bring (me being one of them) and (I or) they want to hold on to that and be proven right. Giving in and saying she can't do it anymore, would take that hope away from many people. So I say she hold on to her dignity, get her voice in the best condition possible and slay the world. That's what I'd rather see. Also I actually believe she does still have moments when her voice/ technique is much stronger than it was in her "hey day". If she get her voice in top condition and maintain it, she would sound just as great if not better IMO. So I personally don't feel lied to or feel like I'm owed an explanation, because though the live performances can be rough, she plays hard in that studio and does it over and over until its the best she can make it. This woman still pours her soul on to that notepad with a pen and gives me something no other artist has/can. The "Looking In" performance deserves all the praise it got, because though everything wasn't 100% spot on, she still sound really good and it gave us hope and showed promise. I won't even touch on people thinking every solid note she hits "must have been lipped" (I just can't), but basically Mariah is still capable of great things, and I pray for the day she reaches that full potential she still has in her. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 3:07)

Re: Blake (38,716) by nikki from usa Benny Medina was with her for the Emancipation era. She was with Chris Lighty until he died and went back to Cindi Berger. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 2:47)

Consider taking a chill pill anyway (38,715) by Geronimo from USA I have been a fan of Mariah just before her first album came out. Her voice is her voice. It is part of her life that she has volunteered to share of her own free choice. She is an entertainer, that's it. She needs lots of rest for her voice these days according to her. She sleeps with humidifiers for the sake of her voice according to her. If you like her recordings, buy them. If you like the way she does her live shows nowadays, pay to see them. But seriously, in what world does she or any entertainer owe you or me an explanation for what we can all hear?Her voice is not a product that you own rights to so that she must report to you as to its current condition. Her voice part of her body, it is hers and she has very generously shared it, maybe even to its detriment. Your particular copies of her recordings are products that you might own, her voice is not a product. (Wednesday 17 July 2013; 0:20)

PJW, Mariah's voice (38,714) by Joe from United Kingdom I actually understand and agree with some of the points you're making. I'm not a fan myself of her faking/lipping notes that she may not be able to always actually hit anymore, but for me I don't feel at this late in her career she really has to start talking about the change or decline in her voice. I'd like her to just acknowledge it in terms of her performing, like for example if she can't hit every high note then instead of lip sync to a lowered version of the studio track, just go for a different note or something, because atleast that's real. In terms of her explaining/talking about what has happened to her voice, I feel it's not going to make a difference really because it's been a long time. We as lambs would be sympathetic, but other people who are non fans or simply don't like her will just laugh and sarcastically say, "Well obviously." I don't feel that she should even give them the satisfaction. Also when people say she goes from album to album like nothing has changed at all, I don't think that is really true, because you can hear a difference in voice, just compare Daydream to TEOM. It's not exactly the same. If she recorded an album with less vocal highs and acrobatics, people would still complain because we're used to hearing that from her. No matter what, people will always have there opinion and they may stick with it or change their mind, that's just how it is. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 22:53)

Mariah's voice (38,713) by Hana from UK The excessive drinking, the parties, they all contributed to the decline of her voice. But what many people seem to forget is the fact that she used to sing live all the time, and not only that, she had to tackle the most challenging vocal arrangements in terms of range and power, through live performances and studio recordings. Yes, Whitney Houston's voice didn't seem to be as badly affected after her peak, but did Whitney's material demand her to sing towards the end of the piano scale, or have her tackle crazy, crazy songs like "Butterfly"? I am not being big headed, but as a singer I can totally empathize with Mariah, and how vocals can easily be deteriorated or weakened, thinned or what not after a few songs. This woman has been in the business for more than two decades, we all have to come to accept that there will be times when she might surprise us, or there will be times where she has to mime to preserve her voice. At the end of the day, we all have to get real and just support her in case she decides to call it quits entirely. She sold over 200 million records, where are all those fans? She should have kept her core base, and then some. Do not illegally download her music. Support her. Support a real singer/songwriter. And in the words of Billie Frank , "You never know when you might lose somebody." (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 22:31)

When? (38,712) by Edward from USA When will the Jeezy remix video be released, when #Beautiful is out of the top 40 on iTunes? #Beautiful is fading fast on iTunes. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 22:07)

Mariah and Island Def Jam (38,711) by Bobby A from United States Lambs. Lambily. I would not be surprise if "The Art Of Letting Go" ends up being Mariah's last album for Def Jam. She would have fulfilled her current contract when the album is released. And plus, Def Jam does not support and promote their artists anymore. Hence, A&R department messed over E=MC2 and Memoirs. I blame Def Jam for their lack of promotion and singles choices for these two albums. I know exactly what label Mariah will end up on... Epic Records/L.A. Reid. He loves Mariah and they have a awesome relationship. We just have to wait and see when "The Art Of Letting Go" is released. Something tells me that #Beautiful will end up being a buzz single, but on the album. I predict that on 07/23 (Mariah's surprise for the true fans) will be the release of the Mike Will Made It track with Young Jezzy. It makes sense to release it as the official first single because every artist that releases one of his songs, he or she ends up having a major radio hit. You all know his music and beats. They are a radio programmer's dream song. Mike Will himself said that the track was a banger. I have a feeling that the track is going to a very subtle shade track for Mariah's haters and Nicki Minaj. The Art Of Letting Go will probably be released in October. Just two more months lambs. By the way, the Fall is a better time to release a new album anyway. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 22:03)

PJW, have you been reading my thoughts? (38,710) by Edward from USA Some people think Mariah doesn't need to explain anything about her voice. Her voice is a product she sells, and a product we've been buying, promoting, fighting for, and requesting for years. So, if the product has changed evidently, and we keep paying as if it hasn't, are we bad people for demanding an explanation? I don't think so. Maybe fans who didn't experience the voice from the 90's can't relate, but for some of us is frustrating just to watch and pretend that Mariah just had a bad day. So, let fans express their frustrations as long as they are not being disrespectful to Mariah. If you don't like it, don't read it, but stop telling to tame a chill pill, because it is irritating. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 21:51)

Looking In performance (38,709) by Stacey from USA Watch the up close video on MDJ. She is clearly moved by the song. She didn't forget the lyrics. She did not forget the lyrics to a song that she is so emotionally connected to. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 21:34)

Response to Joe (38,708) by PJW from The U.K. Joe, she could paint herself purple and call herself dahling sparkles for all I care, just as long as she does what is said on the tin. I agree, it's none of our business who she marries, what she calls her kid, what she wears, what surgery she has, but her voice is our business because we're being asked to invest in that product (and have been asked - and have done so,loyally - for 23 years). Not only are we being asked to do that, we're asked to request, promote, attend, follow, so on and so forth. I've literally spent thousands on this woman and she's living a life of material luxury due to our love for and faith in that product. If you tout yourself as "the voice", if you claim in interviews that your vocal condition is as good as ever (she's recently gone as far as saying it's the better than ever before), if you say that you're singing live when there's evidence you're not, you're not only selling a false product to the masses, but you're falsely selling it to those who've loyally supported and invested in you and who, to be honest, would accept and love you even more for being real with us. That's the difference. It'd not be acceptable with any other product, so I don't see why it's different with singers? Yes, I love her as a person, but we're all here foremost for that voice. It's what distinguished her from the Rihannas of the world and why we choose her over them. So if that isn't there now and she's not being honest, what right does she have to ask these things of us? (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 18:00)

PJW (38,707) by Edward from USA I sadly agree with you. The fluidity in her singing is gone. When she gets to those parts of the song when she needs to use her chest voice, the transition seems to be tough for her now. I agree that with age eventually the voice will change, but there's a difference between changed and damaged. I love me some Mariah, but I don't fool myself pretending her voice has just changed. The fact that she never addresses the issue keeps many of us fans hoping for something that might never happen. When she owned her breakdown, people came out in support. I don't think it would've happened the same way if she had just ignored the breakdown away. I will always love Mariah and her music, but we, her loyal fans, deserve at least part of the truth, maybe we wouldn't be so critical. I think she can still sing, but these back up singers singing louder than her to hide her inabily to hit certain notes doesn't really sound beautiful to me. Many of us would really like to move past the voice issue, but until she owns it, it won't ever happen. And by the way, the last part of Hero "in time you'll find a way" was clearly not live. Just my 25 cents on the matter. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 16:52)

PJW and some other fans (38,706) by Joe from United Kingdom I feel like as fans some people get abit carried away. It's abit ridiculous. Now I'm one of the first people to be critical of certain performances or choices she makes (lip syncing). Yes, her voice is clearly not exactly the same as it once was and I enjoy more when she sings fully live according to what her current vocal state is, but if she doesn't want to, that is her choice, not mine, not the media's and not any of the lambs' either. I understand everyone here is entitled to an opinion and I enjoy the difference in opinion, good or bad. Mariah's voice has always been up and down, she has her good and bad days, even in the 90's there were rare times when her voice wouldn't do what she wanted it to. It's not anything new. The thing I don't understand is why people feel like she has to answer/admit to certain things like plastic surgery, her voice, alcohol, why did she get married to Nick, why did she name her child Morrocan. I'll tell you why, because it's her choice. It's not your body, husband or child. Get over it. We are fans, that is all, we are not related to her. What she does is completely up to her. I'm just being honest. Peace. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 15:01)

Responses to my post (38,705) by PJW from The U.K. The world can't count you out if you acknowledge, embrace, work with and own your issue. Humans are emotion led creatures and alot of our perception and thus understanding of others (including our sympathy and empathy) come from knowing another has an issue, identifying wih that factor alone, acknowledging their bravery and accepting. It's why people love a comeback. It's why people will laugh at Lindsay but love Britney. It's why Mariah spoke out after the breakdown. And the exact same principle works with Marian's current physical injuries and people's/fans' response to it, so why do we disregard it for her voice. It's all about ego, what's deemed as acceptable by cultural conditions etc. Really, it's all made up. None of it is real. The truth will always set you free (I could go into alot more MC psycho analysis re the voice and her methods to gain acceptances for its flaws, but that's a whole other post). And re singing with cracked ribs and a dislocated shoulder, I've done both and it didn't once affect the clarity of my voice, no matter what pain. Maybe you'll be tired or the ribs might make breathing tight, but we're clutching at straws with that argument. "Ill voice" is psychological. You know like when as a kid you'd say in your poorliest voice "mum I'm sick". That besides, I'd maybe get your point if she was syrup voiced last week, but she wasn't. She hasn't been for years. This is a recurring issue. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 14:17)

Looking In / PJW (38,704) by Musti from UK I am so happy she performed Looking In. That song is one of those incredibly heartbreaking songs (along with Twister) that I can never listen to because I simply can't stop crying when I do. I felt every second of that performance. Her falsetto is so on point and you can tell that's her comfort zone. PJW, I don't think Mariah will ever admit that her voice has changed, and with good reason. There was a time when it was expected that singers' voices would change as they age. History is filled with opera singers who took on different roles throughout their careers that suit their voices at different stages of their vocal development. Now that's almost considered as a taboo. Well it's still reality and one's voice does age. Mariah is constantly under attack for her live performances because she set the standard so high in the 90s. Just imagine how people would count her out immediately if she was ever to admit her voice has changed. But whether the world likes it or not, Mariah is still human and her voice will continue to change. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 13:15)

PJW (38,703) by Will from England If and when you decide to sing Hero with broken ribs, a recently dislocated shoulder and a chipped shoulder bone, let us know and we'll see how you fair. Ok? (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 13:00)

Missing words (38,702) by TJ from Norway I don't think either of us knows the truth, but to me it looks like she forgot the words, or that it's to hard to sing the song with that voice. Anyway, I love the performance. (Tuesday 16 July 2013; 12:46)

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