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TRL / hypothetical dueling divas (96,270) by Mirage_Nunez from America I'm sorry, but I do believe the TRL thing was definitely over sensationalized. Mariah with an ice cream cart, pulling off an oversized t shirt (only to reveal another outfit) was not the worst/craziest moment that ever happened on MTV like they tried to spin and Carson just added fuel to the fire. Now he really threw Mariah under the bus (never seem to truly care about her welling being/the aftermath) in that situation and capitalized off the headlines/media coverage on her meltdown. Mariah has already taken accountability for that ordeal with admitting she was exhausted and allowed herself to be overworked. What more would you like her to say: "Yes I am batsh*t crazy and should be in a straight jacket right now." She actually should defend herself against the over exaggerated stories out there from the media and tell her side of what happened with her family. Ask yourself did the people who actually did her dirty take accountability for it or did they just run her in the ground and collect checks from her name. The cultural gap comment is debatable. Celine is not an American white woman, she's French Canadian and I believe Mariah was more so referencing that as the possible cultural difference. I doubt it was "this white woman had no business singing gospel with a black women". It's really unfair to do the hypothetical Whitney scenario, because she's no longer with us and I don't feel right even saying if she would've done the same thing as Celine or not. However since it's been posed as a question, I believes she would've been somewhere in the middle of what Celine and Mariah did. I believe she would've shined on her parts and did her thing, and sung along to compliment Aretha's voice without (seemingly to some ) trying out sing her. She had the same reverence for Aretha Mariah has and actually knew Aretha personally. However if Whitney would've belted over Aretha's voice and went toe to toe in a competitive way, I think Mariah would've felt the same way and said the same thing she's said in past interviews about feeling like she belonged "with the background singers". I mean she wouldn't have had the exact same commentary of course with the cultural part, but I think she still would've said something in reference to why she didn't do the same thing. She and Whitney had their little subliminal shady comment moments towards each other before they actually met and became friends now. Lol. I've actually been on the fence and can see both sides of the situation and thought Celine and Aretha voices sound great on top of each others actually: it was like the soulful church belt meets the contemporary pop run. To be fair every woman had a right to sing their best on that stage that night during their solo performances and when coming together the goal should be to sing well together complimenting each other's voices and not outdo and compete with each other. I've seen this happen in much worse cases with other groups of female singers (reference Patti and Dionne Warwick). However we chose to view the Divas moment moving forward that Natural Woman performance is one for the books and made for one of the greatest moments in diva history. As far as thinking a lot this conversation/opinions shared is rubbish or BS, I accept that we won't agree on a lot of things on this message board. I'm okay with just sharing our different point of views respectfully and respectfully disagree and moving on. I think some just take their rightful grievances to toxic levels and that's the part that's off putting to a lot of the members on this board. At the end of the day we all come her to mostly express our love and appreciation for Mariah's musical contributions not to assassinate her character and foil the message board experience for others. That's something we should all me mindful of when sharing our thoughts. That's all. (Friday 16 October 2020; 00:16)

Re: Lovecraft Country (96,268) (96,269) by Edward from USA Celine Dion is executive producer. I hope Mariah won't object. Lol. I love love the series. Thanks for bringing it up here. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 23:56)

Re: Lovecraft Country (96,182) (96,268) by RibbonB from USA Just curious, have you been watching the series and do you know the team and origins of the work? That's importsnt in the enjoyment, IMO. They are doing a masterful job of handling this subject, especially in he pulp, horror, sci-fi realm. It is strangely deep and moving, yet fun to watch with other nerds, or other interested parties. It definitely is not, nor meant to be a straight ahead drama. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 23:06)

Article: Mariah Carey's very good, very bad two weeks (96,267) by RibbonB from USA He is such a fan. I wish he would dig up some interesting dirt on Stella. Is she still selling limos on Hollywood Blvd? Or was that Rolls'? Who will be the first to challenge the book? I wonder if Pat and siblings have read it yet? That will be a difficult read. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 22:59)

Re: What if (96,263) (96,266) by RibbonB from USA Aretha has meaning to Mariah, singing with her on Divas 98 has meaning to her as she stated in the chapter entitled Divas. Celine was also there and part of the performance. Celine isn't a gospel singer, Aretha is and so was Whitney, at least she sang it when at her Baptist church. Mimi loves gospel, but doesn't try to tangle with the gospel best. It's probably why Mimi won't tangle with a whole gospel CD, she just dabbles. she certainly has studied the best. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 22:43)

The irony of TRL (96,265) by Will from Australia I still can't believe how people can rant about Mariah acting crazy on TRL to the point of having a manic episode themselves about it. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 21:57)

Re: End of the affair (96,260) (96,264) by Bill from the UK I'm not disputing any of what you detailed, and Mariah hasn't really either. You've made your mind up that she's a liar and re-editing history, and nothing I say will change that. But to respond to your points and why I respectfully disagree: - Glitter was never billed as a soundtrack Not having an "OST" suffix does not mean it can't constitute as a soundtrack when the tracks on the album were used in a movie. By definition, it's a soundtrack. It was, if anything, a concept album with a deliberate 80s feel written specifically for the movie. I personally do not class it as either a soundtrack, nor a "regular" album like Daydream or Music Box. More an accompaniment to the movie, or vice versa. - Loverboy sold a lot due to discounting Mariah called it the best selling single of the year, which it was. That's a fact. If her record company discounted it to encourage sales, that's good marketing and no crime was committed. - TRL was Mariah rushing her entrance and acting insane Agree this wasn't Mariah's proudest moment at all, but her point in the memoir was that everybody on the set, including Carson, knew she would be appearing, yet they made it seem like it was unknown and unplanned. - The plates didn't slip out of her hand We can't comment on this as neither of us were there. - She did not disappear to background singing because of Celine Dion Again we do not know why she did this as we were not in her head, so we only have her account of the evening to go by. - Tommy Mottola did not "help" launch her career - he launched the whole bloody thing That is true, he did indeed mastermind her career and used his influence to get her good press and on the right shows and in the studio with great producers. However, it was off the back of his belief in her unfathomable talent as a singer and a songwriter. Tommy did not sing, nor write, any of her recordings. He was just great at managing her career (to her artistic and personal detriment). Therefore it is fair to say he did "help", as without the talent to back it up, Mariah would simply be just another Tiffany. - She is not suddenly a "black woman who is also mixed race" - she is mixed race She is mixed race yes, but if she feels a stronger connection to her black ancestry over her white, who are we to say that is wrong? Reading the memoir, her dad was strict but clearly cared deeply for her. Her cousins on her father's side protected her. Her black friends in school defended her. Is it any wonder why she leaned closer to that part of her make up over the other, when it was her mother who neglected her, and the white girls that bullied her and traumatised her? (Thursday 15 October 2020; 21:44)

What if (96,263) by Edward from USA Had Mariah stepped up when Aretha made the call and hit some stratospheric high notes, we would be singing a different tune here. We would all be bragging about how she slayed. None of them chickens on stage could overpower Aretha's gargantuan scream, lol. The only thing they could do was sing the best they could, Celine did. Mariah didn't even try, you can see Aretha wanted her to. When Mariah outsings a man it's fine because men are there to compliment women voices, and supposedly is expected, such bullshit. But when Mariah holds back for whatever reason, she's doing it out of respect, some more bullshit. Celine has nothing but praises to say about Mariah. She's irrelevant to "The Meaning of Mariah Carey". Let's shift into an alternate universe, and which Whitney Houston replaces Celine that night, but with the same outcome. Let's also imagine Whitney is still alive. Do you guys think Mariah would've ever mentioned it? I think we all know the answer. And since Whitney Houston is black enough for Mariah, even blacker than her, there wouldn't have been a culture gap as Mariah states it on her memoirs. I don't remotely think Mariah is racist, but the culture gap comment sounds racist to me. I also didn't know that when a black woman and a white woman were singing about Jesus, the white woman had to take the backseat. Maybe that explains why Mariah didn't know what to do with herself. She didn't know which way to go. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 21:40)

Wow (96,262) by Hilton from USA I've been part of this board for years but stopped being interactive. I have to say, some of you on this board are nothing short of nasty individuals. The hate being spewed here is disturbing and a lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is a sad day in here and it's so sickening to continue to say "this dysfunctional family" when I'm fact, that's really an excuse to be abusive towards one another. This is not what Mariah stands for and this is not what she would want for us. We can be objective and opinionated without being rude and disrespectful to one another. Some of y'all seem to think that your opinions are facts and that's alarming. You think you know this woman and her life and really, most wouldn't be able to walk a day in her shoes. Sigh. Nikki I love your posts by the way. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 20:05)

Re: End of the affair (96,255) (96,261) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines This may be more complicated than that. Remember how Michael Jackson had a song called Childhood? Setting the child molestation mess aside, it's clear that Michael and some of his other siblings were robbed of a normal childhood. They've all dealt with such trauma differently as they grew up, and some managed better than the others. It's these proofs of individual differences that play a part in coping with heavy issues that make me empathize more with anyone who has had not such a happy upbringing as a child, Mariah included. So while acting like she's eternally 12 is definitely not the most ideal way of dealing with her past, that doesn't necessarily mean she's dwelling in it. It's just her fun, annoying way of putting it. Much of her actions as an adult, as childish as they may seem, comes across as her chasing something that she wasn't afforded as a young girl from an unstable family and making sure her own children don't experience the same. It's her way of coping, and frankly, for everything she has had to endure, it seems to have worked for her somehow. She's now a middle aged icon who has outlived many of her legend peers who have succumbed to more serious issues. We can't really knock that because seriously, in such a cutthroat business that's always looking for the next shiny new toy, longevity is unfortunately an achievement. Don't let victim complex-ridden memoir fool you - this woman is a survivor and despite her many missteps she still continues to prove that she has a better head on her shoulders than most stars, and definitely more than most people give her credit for. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 19:00)

Re: End of the affair (96,252) (96,260) by Andrew from the United Kingdom "[I]t's not really constructive to call her experiences BS when they are her experiences." Bloody hell, Bill. It is a weak argument that someone's "lived experience" cannot be challenged, especially when all visible evidence is to the contrary and/or their reliability as a witness is tenuous. The phrase "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining" comes to mind, once more. However, if Mariah wants to push delusion and fabrication let her. She always has. But any fan, Lamb or Queen that supports this is actually worse - those people that insist a performance is live when it clearly is not, that an image is not doctored when it clearly is, that a vocal not engineered when it clearly has been. And now Mariah's untruthfulness is supported in accounts of things that clearly did not happen that way. Mariah has sold you a false weather forecast and pissed all over your leg. And you're telling everybody to buy umbrellas. - Glitter was never billed as a soundtrack - Loverboy sold a lot due to discounting - TRL was Mariah rushing her entrance and acting insane - The plates didn't slip out of her hand - She did not disappear to background singing because of Celine Dion - Tommy Mottola did not "help" launch her career - he launched the whole bloody thing - She is not suddenly a "black woman who is also mixed race" - she is mixed race Enough with the "BS". (Thursday 15 October 2020; 18:08)

Re: Mariah unfiltered feelings about things (96,241) (96,259) by Mirage_Nunez from America Honestly I've always thought Mariah really felt uncomfortable up there during the Testimony performance because Aretha (seemly impromptu) started singing about Jesus and she had on that short (see through illusion) dress. And if you know anything about church etiquette then modesty in apparel is a key component. I could tell she didn't want to do too much and wanted it to be over as quickly as possible (like any awkward moment), but it just kept going and going... and going. I don't think the problem for Mariah was Celine actually singing/responding to Aretha in general during the performance. She just felt like Celine did the most and it came off as upstaging Aretha (to her). Her point of view of it was to just follow Aretha's lead and not take over/out sing her. Celine was a little extra on that one. Lol but in her defense I would say perhaps she really did just feel like she was keeping up with Aretha, exuding soul, and giving her what she was asking for (in that moment). Now if was a line up of gospel heavy weights (Yolanda Adams, CeCe Winans, Karen Clark etc) up there then it would've came off differently Celine would've fit in perfectly because everybody would've been up there hooping, wailing, and projecting from the depths of there soul. All in the spirit of just praising the Lord of course. Assuming you do know the Lord/believe in him (as Aretha may have put it). Again I don't love that Mariah mentioned this in her book either; it actually does forces some people to question "why is she really mad" and start to objectively point out different faux pas about her. I wished she would've tucked this excerpt away with the Eminem story as well. Now If I have to dig to my objective core about the overall problem Mariah may have had that night. I'd say she felt like Celine upstaged everyone, people expected more from her (especially back then), and behind the scenes probably came up to her afterwards questioning her about why she held back so much, didn't "do this or do that" and the excerpt in her memoir was her line of defense. In other words Celine's performance inadvertently reflected on her in some adverse way and that's what bothered her enough to put it in the memoir. Not to be confused with jealousy though, I really don't think it was that. When Celine sung her first line during Natural Woman you could see Mariah waving her hand smiling, and doing the little head nod along like she was feeling. So I know there's an appreciation for her as a fellow vocalist at the core of all this. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 17:55)

Re: On a lighter note (96,257) (96,258) by Edward from USA Bill, I would've preferred "Do You Know Where You're Going To" over "There for Me". You guys have it as a bonus track on your edition of #1's just like "Everything Fades Away" on Music Box, we don't. If we listen carefully though, both tracks wouldn't have flowed well on this edition of "The Rarities", maybe both will make it on the next one. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 17:40)

Re: On a lighter note (96,256) (96,257) by Bill from the UK Agree that the b sides fit well aside the unreleased tracks and glad they have a home. My heart does ache for There For Me though. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 16:17)

On a lighter note (96,256) by Edward from USA I love "The Rarities". Even though I didn't want SA, EFA and DYTOM on it, I'm glad they finally found a proper home. The way they were sequenced flows perfectly to me. I have listened to the album everyday since it was released. I usually skip "Sexually Transmited Disease". I don't understand how some of the previously unreleased tracks were left aside when they're way better than many of the album cuts they didn't make it into or at least could've sit well with any of them. Mariah said it but most of us didn't believe her when she wrote/sang: But don't believe That's all there is to see You'll never know the real me Holefully we can concentrate on her music, after all we know Mariah has always lived in Mariah's World, just like Michael did. Geniuses tend be perceived as weird from the "Outside" "Looking In". Nobody is perfect. Can't wait for what's in store for Christmas. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 15:36)

Re: End of the affair (96,245) (96,255) by Mutton Dressed as Lamb from UK My last thoughts on the subject of Mariah is her refusal to accept years. She's eternally 12. Um... your memoir tells a story of a 12 year old that was treated like trash and made to feel inferior. Why would you want to exist in that head space for all eternity? (Thursday 15 October 2020; 15:31)

Re: End of the affair (96,253) (96,254) by Bill from the UK No my reply was intended for Andrew Deedre. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 15:30)

Re: End of the affair (96,252) (96,253) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada If you are replying to me in no way I'm I saying I agree with everything Mariah says or does: lok. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 14:29)

Re: End of the affair (96,245) (96,252) by Bill from the UK Hang on, I'm only saying there may be reasons as to why Mariah wasn't comfortable dancing, and gave two potentials - Tommy and her grandmother. I don't know anymore than you do as to why she didn't feel comfortable doing so that evening. For all we know it could have simply been her time of month. I love Mariah a lot and feel awful about all that she went through. I don't agree with everything she says and does, both professionally and personally, but it's not really constructive to call her experiences BS when they are her experiences. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 14:00)

Re: End of the affair (96,244) (96,251) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada Your posts are very insightful Bill. Unfortunately, over the years I feel like being hard on Mariah has become confused with what it means to be objective. There's been a lot of talk about healing since the book came out: Healing is not a one size fits all type of thing. It is highly personal. Even if she is not able to evolve passed the impact of her experiences beyond this point where she is now, that in itself doesn't make her a bad person. As you say, none of us are in her shoes With things like the Oprah interview, where the weight of her pain seems so alive, I can't help but want to see her free from that heaviness, but that really is not our call to make. I really do wish her the best and don't see myself ever not following her. I've been with her for everything. I can't say that about many people. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 13:19)

Re: What is going on here (96,235) (96,250) by Anonymous from I salute your post Robert, here's to hoping the negativity shifts a bit. Deflated/angry post has now ceased. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:49)

Re: Deflated and angry (96,218) (96,249) by Anonymous from Thank you Deedre, high 5 to you too. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:47)

Re: Mariah unfiltered feelings about things (96,241) (96,248) by Mutton Dressed as Lamb from UK "I wish Mariah had written the book solely about her childhood and upbringing. That was special and eyeopening and endearing and heartbreaking. The rest of the book is " This (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:44)

Re: What is going on here (96,242) (96,247) by RibbonB from USA Lol definitely not Bravo. I must admit that BET did an excellent job with the New Edition biopic. Some people would be up in arms. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:32)

AG MC JH (96,246) by Andrew from the United Kingdom I really hope Mariah takes the opportunity to record and release a song with Ariana Grande and not just confine a collaboration with her to featuring her on an Apple TV Special. I can do without J-Hud. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:26)

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