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Re: Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,234) (87,257) by Bill from the UK Thanks a lot for sharing. Simply beautiful. I don't understand how this hasn't been released and why the poster's description is so full of paranoia around it being out there. Both Bolton and Mariah sound amazing, the song is brilliant, and it has made everyone happy to finally hear this in its entirety. I'm hoping Sony Legacy release an anniversary edition of the debut in 2020 with this, the demo, the Tattoo club set, and some other little trinkets. But as usual the anniversary will likely fly by without so much as a nod in the album's direction. (Thursday 27 December 2018; 15:05)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,233) (87,256) by Geronimo from USA Your post is right on, especially when you said, "It was their collaborations that deviated from the norm (Underneath The Stars, Fourth of July, Dreamlover) that actually deserves more credit." Underneath the Stars was probably the first song where I recognized that Mariah Carey was a serious creative talent as a songwriter. The writing is lush without being mushy and it is unabashedly sentimental without being corny. Even though there are several layers of vocal harmonies in the background, they intersect in a lean and rhythmically sophisticated way with her soft, elongated, and undulating melody. And the music actually sounds like the world her lyrics describe. (Thursday 27 December 2018; 04:45)

Re: Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,248) (87,255) by B from USA It was written by Bolton and Warren and produced by Narada Michael Walden and his assistant Walter Afanasieff. Mariah met Walter while working with Walden on her debut and suggest they work together on Love Takes Time against Tommy's protestations that she continue to work with the same producers she worked with on her debut album. Can we please find a new topic to discuss? (Thursday 27 December 2018; 02:27)

Re: Wendy (87,251) (87,254) by B from USA Agreed. If Mariah was a has been or irrelevant Wendell wouldn't constantly feature Mariah during her Hot Topics segment on almost a daily basis. Mariah is still a global megastar. (Thursday 27 December 2018; 02:20)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,249) (87,253) by Ricardo Edwards from New Zealand Totally agree... life moves on. I remember that episode of Oprah when she had her highschool graduating class on her show. They were all talking about how they were the most wonderful years of their lives etc etc. And Oprah said "Yeah it's fun to look back on them, but I see them as a phase, I don't still live there, I moved on." Life constantly changes and evolves. Yes Mariah was awesome in the early/mid 90's, and she's been awesome throughout and she's awesome today. It is fun to look back on, and enjoy the music, but that era is done and dusted. You come down from the mountain to climb higher mountains, and, with age, the definition of a "higher mountain" becomes very personal. It becomes less about how others perceive what you are doing and more what you feel about what you are doing lol. Record companies won't like it, but Mariah's solid fanbase will. I think she understands this. (Thursday 27 December 2018; 01:34)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,249) (87,252) by We are Lambily from USA Jake20, I fricking love you, you are spot on. I love that music aswell but what I love even more is when Mariah creates work she enjoys instead of listening to everybody else. Caution is truly an amazing indication of what the future holds, I also believe there are many breathtaking moments ahead, Mariah is music. Her creativity will never end. She is really one of the greatest artists who ever lived and no one can take that away. Anyways, I also wanna say that the biggest and dumbest mistake of this era was not releasing Runaway worldwide. That song speaks to my soul the most. The lyrics, the production and the vocals were perfection. I demand a deluxe version with that song and then a no no remix "if it's still happening". This album is criminally underrated and I don't know what to do about it. (Thursday 27 December 2018; 01:23)

Wendy (87,251) by Ricardo Edwards from New Zealand Gosh, I just watched Wendy Williams claiming Mariah has very little in put in writing her songs. How infuriating Wendy is. But I guess if Wendy is still talking about Mariah (however petty) it means Mariah is still up there in terms of super stardom. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 23:49)

WNMLAM (87,250) by Gee from U.S.A. (New York City) A great duet both Michael and MC held their own. The youth and strength in MC's voice is just beyond incredible here. This is just another example of MC's undeniable talent as a singer and much respect to Michael Bolton for blessing MC with a major opportunity so early on in her career. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 23:15)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,233) (87,249) by jaker20 from US No, Mariah should ignore him. Walter probably can't believe that 20 years after their last collab, Mariah is still making great music and getting some of the best acclaim in her career. Mariah's longevity is insane, look at her Spotify streams. If it was up to Walter, Mariah's career would have ended in 1999 and singing the same ballads that nearly ended her voice. Call me crazy but I actually think Mariah's best music is yet to come in the next decades, because her ability to stay current is a talent in itself. Caution is just the beginning of this journey. If she can continue that level of quality, even with just good-to-ok sales, her legend status will continue to solidify. Because at the end of the day, it is about the music. And the fact that Walter is salty means Mariah should continue to collab with different talents and enrich and expand her artistic journey and not be stuck in a box like Walter. Look I absolutely love that era as much as the next lamb, but being stuck in that era is like being in a college frat or sorority and staying there. That was 25 years ago people, Mariah has many facets in her creativity. And oh Merry Christmas. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 20:26)

Re: Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,234) (87,248) by Hector from Mexico Beautiful. Another Walter Afanasieff song (with Diane Warren). (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 19:55)

Re: Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,234) (87,247) by Bobby A from United States Wow. I am speechless how their voices sound so smoking hot together. That whistle note towards the end was unbelievable. Thank you for posting. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 17:12)

Re: Chanel 5 "documentary" (87,235) (87,246) by RibbonB from USA Thank you, exactly my point. Those nuts are tainted now and for ever IMO. At least as far as speaking on Mimi is concerned. And the sister is on tape whining and crying about asking for her son for money to buy false teeth. I gather he said no and also didn't invite her to his nuptuals. All understandable. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 16:59)

Re: Chanel 5 "documentary" (87,227) (87,245) by B from USA I did. However, sadly there are "fans" who have misconceptions about Mariah. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 16:06)

Re: All I Want For Christmas is You (87,232) (87,244) by B from USA I was really hoping it would become Mariah's 19th #1. Maybe next year. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:57)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,233) (87,243) by B from USA Agreed. Mariah's always been an R&B singer, she just happened to debut when R&B was considered popular music. Vision of Love topped Billboard's R&B charts before it topped the Hot 100. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:56)

The Crave song (87,242) by B from USA Does anyone else think the Crave song Mariah talked about during the Daydream era and said she wouldn't release because it was full of innuendo eventually turned into Honey? (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:52)

Re: Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,234) (87,241) by B from USA Thanks for sharing. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:49)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,233) (87,240) by Billy from Greece Excellent post. I agree with everything you said. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:46)

Re: Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,234) (87,239) by Billy from Greece Oh my. I'm dead all over. This is impeccable, spine-tingling, outrageously sizzling performance. My goodness. Thanks so much. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:36)

Spotify (87,238) by SM from Citizen of the World Can "All I Want For Christmas Is You" top Billboard Hot 100 with 10.8 million streams in 1 day? I will never understand the rules for Billboard lol. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:15)

At last (87,237) by MC1989 from Spain The full live performance of Mariah's duet with Michael Bolton has been leaked. [Webmaster: We already know. See the previous message.] (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 15:05)

Merry Christmas (87,236) by Special K from USA I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 14:55)

Re: Chanel 5 "documentary" (87,227) (87,235) by Special K from USA Interesting how those three snakes failed to mention and discuss why they have a very estranged relationship with Mariah in the present and the producers epic failure to highlight those reasons. Morgan Carey makes me get dry heaves. Seriously. It's like play your role. You are supposed to be the big brotha and protect your sister. You straight up put your sister on blast, call her a witch, take every opportunity you have conducting interviews trash talking your sister but oh now you in this so called documentary acting like you want nothing but the best for your sister with them fake tears. Boy bye with that sh$t. Whatever issues he and Mariah had that caused them to have a falling out was between them two, Morgan "knives in the back big brotha" Carey" needs his ass kicked. I remember watching him on Inside Edition saying he had to move to Italy because he was afraid of Mariah's fans. What a punk. The other two aren't even worth my time to talk sh$t about. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 14:54)

Full - We're Not Making Love Anymore (87,234) by Lafa from Sweden Full performance of "We're Not Making Love Anymore" feat. Michael Bolton (and Mariah) out now. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 12:30)

Re: Walter the retail relic (87,182) (87,233) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines I'm late to the party, but Geronimo, yours is the one of the most honest opinions I have read about Mariah and Walter's collaborations. It is easy to assume that the magic they made together is somehow the pinnacle of Mariah's output. That is true to some extent, as many of the tracks they made together are part of Mariah's essential hits. But to claim that nothing that Mariah has ever done outside their partnership has reached those highs, just like someone has opined earlier, is just blasphemous. I wouldn't lend too much credence to Walter's statements. The fact that Mariah is still the influential artist she is while Walter has not thrived outside of the 90s in itself says a lot. No, the 90s wasn't a time when people musically "let loose", not especially for the diva pop singers. That era was quite the opposite, actually - it was uptight and even almost regimented. It was just their carefree vocal performances that were considered an escape and a wonderful contrast to the standard big-voiced diva pop sound that dominated the airwaves. Walter's work with Mariah, while mostly outstanding, was expected of her during the 90s. It was the default sound back then. It was Mariah's input, being the brilliant songwriter she is, that added personal touch to the classic, overwrought big ballad and elevated it to an art form that gifted interpreters such as Whitney, Toni and Celine simply cannot touch. It was their collaborations that deviated from the norm (Underneath The Stars, Fourth of July, Dreamlover) that actually deserves more credit. Mariah is a very versatile artist, as once again demonstrated in Caution, with the uncanny ability of working with producers with very varied, distinct styles whilst maintaining her signature sound. But she also was a woman who had to fight really hard to get any creative say on her earlier sound. She was also around when hip-hop was in its infancy. She witnessed firsthand how it blossomed and became the prevalent force it is today. So to dismiss Mariah's transition to hip-hop and R&B as inauthentic and solely a survival instinct, as someone else has posted earlier on this board, is just ridiculous. Mariah's move towards hip-hop is as organic and unforced as it gets. The Fantasy remix proved that. The Butterfly album furthered it. Even the much maligned Rainbow album which saw her fully dabble into urban felt like a natural progression. It is easy to place Mariah's earlier, cheesier and more saccharine material often rife with platitudes and cliches on a pedestal because they were the big, inescapable hits. Back then, even her obscure album tracks were hits on their own way just because of Mariah's faultless vocal performances and then-untouchable star power; the same way Adele's entire 21 and 25 albums were revered track-by-track because of her immense popularity, when frankly, a closer look of the material would reveal that not all of them are as great as we paint them out to be. It's almost a crime to say anything bad about the Afanasieff years, when in fact many of the more interesting tracks in the albums he had a heavier hand in crafting were the songs that he did not produce (Always Be My Baby, Babydoll, Honey, Never Forget You, Melt Away, Fantasy, The Wind, Make It Happen, Breakdown, etc.) In contrast, Mariah's latter post-Afanasieff material is almost automatically deemed inferior because they feature more hushed, weaker vocal performances, have less traditional writing and less instantly distinguishable melodies and arrangements, but mostly because they are less popular. There was a time when the Mariah-Walter formula worked so well. That time has passed. It's unfair to compare songs made during entirely different decades and musical landscapes. There is no way to objectively compare Portrait to Looking In, Hero to Through the Rain, Without You to I Wanna Know What Love Is, no matter how similar they seem. Implying that Mariah has transitioned into R&B & hip-hop and other "trendier" genres out of necessity more than anything is probably the most arrogant way one can downplay her artistic credibility. Just saying. Happy Holidays, y'all. (Wednesday 26 December 2018; 12:20)

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