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Why repeat and highlight the painfully obvious? (101,861) by Geronimo from USA

We can all see Mariah Carey is not in a good place. I'd greatly appreciate a thoughtful explanation of the intended function of serializing goats' and lambs' riveting forensic takes on the tragic "farce" of it all ad nauseam when no one knows enough to shed light on what is actually happening with Mariah Carey.
(Saturday 17 December 2022; 00:29)

Why is everyone surprised? (101,860) by Tevin from USA

I agree Jamie. Notice how she hasn't posted any clips of her performance on social media. Usually she post quite a bit of stuff.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 22:07)


this is a reply to message		101,856

Why is everyone surprised? (101,859) by Bobby A from United States

Wait a minute, Randy. Are you saying that the 2006 Grammys performance of WBT/FLAB was a combination of lip synching and live singing? I have always thought that the performance was totally live. We have been bamboozled for a very long time now if that is the case.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 19:40)


this is a reply to message		101,852

Why is everyone surprised? (101,858) by MusicfanJ from Germany

Yes. I had to stop watching the clip. Too painful to watch. It looks like Mariah wants to sing and "deliver" but she just can't. And she knows it. Whatever the reasons are, it's so sad. She really seems struggling. Someone should take care of her as a human being not just manage the star.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 18:36)


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Why is everyone surprised? (101,857) by MC1989 from Spain

Hi, first I want to say that I usually agree with your thoughts and I respect your point of view. But I don't agree with the part of "Mariah always sound this bad". I've been a huge fan since the late 90's and I saw her in concert too, and although she's been using smoke and mirrors for decades now to camouflage her vocal deterioration, she's capable of singing live very good. I think she still has a good voice, but it' s a very fragile instrument. Until this year. She never sounded as bad as in this MSG performance. She was clearly sick and that's not an excuse. There are a few videos from different angles where you can see she doesn't even remembers that the track comes in, like in the Emotions intro - which by the way is very mediocre considering it's prerecorded. Some concert goers said people booed before the concert started because she was more than an hour and 40 minutes late. That is unacceptable.

I've never seen her singing out of tune through the whole, and I mean the whole song. She could barely hit a note. All of the videos from this concert are embarrassingly sad. They remind me of Amy and Whitney's last performances. Again, I hope she will recover, maybe she got the flu or whatever, but at this point I think she really needs to stop performing and consider vocal surgery and vocal therapy. I can't excuse this.

But from the clips I saw of her cover of "Christmas Wrapping", she will probably do a pop-rock album. I like the idea but not the girlie sexy kinda pop rock at 53. I think she's going to put out the Someone's Ugly Daughter project with her new vocals, and that would be a mistake I think. It would be better to put out the original album, with the 1995 vocals. She can promote it if she wants to, with some interviews, but really stop performing. Adele and many others had to stop singing for more than a year and have had vocal surgery. But Mariah is older now, and I think she will play the game of pretending to be a great vocalist without addressing any problem, always smiling and looking like an ageless doll, portrait of her life.

Many of us all we want is to know what happened as you said, we want her to stop the live venues before it's too late. Before another bad moment goes viral and ruins her reputation which is not exactly good. The general press is always attacking her and they rarely talk about her triumphs, her recent awards etc. She certainly regained some confident and got back some love from the general public. She gave as a great album in 2018 and a great collection of rarities which proved her legendary status. When she addressed her bipolar disorder many empathized with her struggle and same happened after her memoir. And the celebrations for her 30 years in music and AIWFCIY becoming number one these last years seemed like the general public loved her back again. But many people haven't forgotten about Rockefeller, Mariah's World and the NYE disaster, and too many people perceive her as a diva in the bad sense of the word. If she was honest about her vocal problems it would make her more relatable. Look at Celine, and she never sang this bad.

She can retire happy because she gave us more than 3 decades of amazing music and she inspired generations. But at this point, I wish she would retire from singing. Write another memoir, write songs or a book of poems like Lana Del Rey. I want her to be involved with music and arts in general because she is super talented, but there's no need to disappoint concert goers or to struggle while singing if she can't sing her classics anymore. No need to be all over the media again for a bad reason. Retire with dignity, like Kate Bush, Tina Turner and many others. She will always be our favorite, but not if she continues downhill like this.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 17:10)


this is a reply to message		101,852

Why is everyone surprised? (101,856) by Jamie from UK

I think even Mariah looked disappointed in this clip.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 16:57)


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Why is everyone surprised? (101,855) by Edward from USA

I was in the audience when she recorded her session of the BET Network Special in which she sung "With You I'm Born Again" with John Legend. I had to stand in line for 3 hours, but it was worth the wait because she was simply great. She just needs to deal with the problem and she'll be fine. She needs real lambs and real friends to tell her she's just further damaging her voice. The cat has been out the bag for years now, she should've been doing something about it. She knew she would be defrosted for these few shows, she should've been better prepared. Lose the weight and avoid the effing restricting corsets, get a vocal coach and get the voice in shape. She might sound good on a clip on Instagram, but the problem has always been about consistency with her.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 16:36)


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Why is everyone surprised? (101,854) by Bill from the UK

That's a fair point you raised at the end there. As it's been so long, is she supposed to say she's been fooling everybody for 25 years? I think we just value Mariah's voice, legacy and music more than she does. She clearly cares more about how she looks, the bank balance, and her endorsements over her voice, her music, and her legacy. It is incredibly sad, but perhaps she simply does not care about it as much as we do.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 15:45)


this is a reply to message		101,852

Hero live MSG 2022 (101,853) by BFF from United States

In the late 1990s, she used to talk about how she liked singing "Hero" live because it was easy for her to sing and because she could mix things up. Watching that clip makes it clear that something is really wrong.

Has she rehearsed or prepared her voice at all? Part of me wishes she had not ended her Vegas residency, those shows were not perfect but having that obligation in place ensured that she had to put at least some effort into preparing. I get that the pandemic contributed some to this, but plenty of other artists started doing shows again much sooner than Mariah.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 15:15)


this is a reply to message		101,849

Why is everyone surprised? (101,852) by Randy from USA

I'm definitely not here to gloat. I'm actually perplexed. I called voice deterioration in 1998/99 when I saw her on The View and Whitney Houston embarrassed her at the Oscar's. I called lip syncing in 1999 when every climax to Heartbreaker and Can't Take That Away was flawless yet she was a raspy struggle through the verses. But I was attacked for it and called not a real fan. The time I was attacked the most was when I called the 2006 Grammys a master cut and paste job. So to see all of this hoopla over these Christmas concerts baffles me. To me honestly, Mariah always sounds this bad. Pull up the Global Citizen concert from last summer. That Hero is almost identical to the MSG one a few days ago. That's why I wasn't spending $400 to see her. She got me once with the Charmbracelet tour. The other thing that you guys don't realize is that they are going to edit and dub the hell out of the Christmas show for CBS. What'll be interesting is how she'll respond when people start juxtaposing the live verses the televised. I take no joy in saying I'm right here and to be honest MC has surprised me too many times for me to say it's over for the voice. I said that in 99 and she shocked the hell out of me with Home for the Holidays in 2001. I said it again in 2012 and she shocked the hell out of me with the Jimmy Fallon's impromptu. I said it again in 2016 and she shocked the hell out of me with Stay the Night on Twitter. All I've wanted since 1997 on Oprah was for her to tell us what the hell happened. But like Stacey reminded me ... what the hell is she supposed to say?
(Friday 16 December 2022; 13:22)

Hero live MSG 2022 (101,851) by Jamie from UK

I'm the same Bill, very sad. I feel no vocal coaching is gonna fix this. How can this happen?
(Friday 16 December 2022; 12:07)


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Supreme songbird (101,850) by Bill from the UK

Just when I thought nothing could be worse than that dreadful remake of this song she did last year.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 11:53)


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Hero live MSG 2022 (101,849) by Bill from the UK

I wish you hadn't shared that. I just burst into tears. This is heartbreaking. Something is really, really wrong. What on earth has happened?
(Friday 16 December 2022; 11:51)


this is a reply to message		101,845

Hero live MSG 2022 (101,848) by Sasha from Nomansland

This is really disturbing.

(Friday 16 December 2022; 11:23)


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Hero live MSG 2022 (101,847) by Bobby A from United States

The critics are going to rip the CBS show to threads on the 21st. Who knows, maybe the same editor who saved The Adventures of Mimi DVD can make the CBS show watchable. I just don't know. I am really worried about MC's career right now. Who would have thought in 1990 that our beloved Mariah Carey would totally lose her voice?
(Friday 16 December 2022; 10:41)


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Supreme songbird (101,846) by MC1989 from Spain

Well, I don't know that Joseph Khan, but if I agree with him. "No one like Mariah", no one could go and do Christmas Baby Please Come Home like this and make you feel like her vocal chords are bleeding. These people don't really love her. Someone who loves her would tell her to go to a doctor as soon as possible. I'm afraid Mariah is going to need a lot of cortisone for her last MSG show.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 09:26)


this is a reply to message		101,830

Hero live MSG 2022 (101,845) by MC1989 from Spain

So this may be her worst performance of her career. It's supposed to be aired on TV in a week. It doesn't matter how they end up editing it, people were there and the videos are all over the Internet.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 08:54)

Supreme songbird (101,844) by Edward from USA

MIAM has some great vocal moments. The whistles on Dedicated are some of her best, in my opinion. "The Art of Letting Go" is the last song I remember she sung in full voice, the climax is just great. Sadly four years later her range had reduced by almost halve on "Caution", and four years after there's almost nothing left. Even though I was quite impressed with her vocals on "The Roof Re-imagined".
(Friday 16 December 2022; 03:28)


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Supreme songbird (101,843) by Bobby A from United States

I just realized this today. The last time MC sung her butt off was on You're Mine (Eternal). The highs and lows on the song were executed very well. Wow. That was in 2014. It will be almost 10 years next year. I guess it is time to order me a FYE CD of the You're Mine remixes.
(Friday 16 December 2022; 00:26)


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Supreme songbird (101,842) by Terna from Nigeria

Thanks for this, I hope she see this and realizes she's not fooling anyone, we can see it and so can the general public. Honestly, at this point its probably only the surgery that can save and repair whatever damage she's got going on. I always said her vocal issues stem from way back to at least 1994. That first tour did something to her voice. And it's blaringly obvious by the "Daydream" era. Sure she still does sound good, but one can tell already she's lost a good chunk of her main voice, maybe a nodule or something else and ever since then it's been downhill vocally for Mariah. Like Celine Dion, Mariah Should come clean. Enough of the façade already. People want to see you win Mariah, but you've got to want to win yourself too. Get professional help. She's never really worked with a vocal coach and at this point a speech therapist (does she even know new tricks of the trade like singing straws, humming and vocal fry exercises, warm ups for pre shows and cool downs for after shows? etc.) and that's why she's in this predicament today. Smh. I feel so worried for her. Get help Mariah, quit being so damn stubborn and delusional.

(Thursday 15 December 2022; 21:24)


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What's going on (101,841) by Will from England

It is quite shocking how bad her voice has become over the last few weeks. Whatever has happened to it is a very recent thing, because even though the quarantine shows/performances were pre-recorded, they actually were quite decent and had strength, fluidity, range etc. unless they were edited to the hilt. Everyone was praising them to some extent. These recent performances, I just can't put my finger on what she's done to have such a drastic change, even her stage presence is way off. It's over the top, even for a Mariah Carey performance. Everything that she knew how to do (breath control, timing, key selection, phrasing) is all off and it's showing. Is it possible that she's had surgery on them already and it's not healed fully? The voice we have currently is not even a distant relative to the one that recorded Caution, and she considered the vocals on that to not be at their best, I doubt she would even be able to sing any song on that album, let alone her classic hits.
(Thursday 15 December 2022; 18:54)


this is a reply to message		101,838

Mariah needs help (101,840) by TheWind from England

Mariah can barely sing a note live. She is talking through some songs, and is barely able to cope with the most basic of runs. Her whistle tones, whether live or prerecorded, do not sound in good shape either. They have lost their clarity, which is a worrying sign, because in years gone by, even on her worst day, she could hit a strong whistle note. Mariah knows what is wrong with her voice. She needs to act on it. We can sit here and type about advice, and suggestions about what to do, but she knows what is wrong. She must have a voice doctor and vocal coach. She needs to do what she is advised to do. Either that, or continue to live as she has been and not take money off of people to attend concerts that are so clearly not live.
(Thursday 15 December 2022; 12:27)

What's going on (101,839) by "MariahHater" from Hell

As far as I have observed, she records the sounds she does live from previous years and adds them to playback to make it more sounding as her current vocal state.

I stumbled upon early 2010s perfromances and I must say, I miss Mariah Carey. The Mariah Carey as a human artist. Not the money making machine we see now. I applaud her efforts to be present everywhere but it pains me to see mediocre performances. I totally understand if she is already impaired. Maybe she is still on the denial stage. We don't know for sure if she already consulted voice specialists and might advised her to enjoy whatever notes left on her chords before she retire at a certain point in time. We really don't know.

But I rather have her do stripped down sets, unplugged raw sessions even if she lowers the key 500 times just to cater to her current vocal state. I'd be willing to pay more to see her in a normal jeans than to see her on a total glammed bot. I really miss Mariah Carey, the human.
(Thursday 15 December 2022; 11:42)


this is a reply to message		101,838

What's going on (101,838) by whisperingmisunderstandings from USA

I'm a long time lurker as well, thought I'd share my two sense about what's going on with her vocally. A lot of fans have relied on the "vocal rest" narrative, the idea that if Mariah would just take a year off, like she did during her pregnancy, or like she did between the Charmbracelet tour/TEOM, her voice would recover. Her voice did sound pretty strained by early 2020, so the pandemic seemed like a perfect opportunity for her to take a break.

Cut to 2022, her live performances this year have proven that vocal rest alone won't cut it. In fact, I think part of what we're dealing with is vocal underuse. The voice is a muscle, and any athlete knows that there's a delicate balance between overuse and underuse. Imagine an olympic runner taking 2 years off, and then one day getting up and trying to run a marathon. They would not be anywhere near their peak performance, as their body would be woefully out of shape. Mariah went from singing around the house/in the studio whenever she felt like it (claiming to have regained her voice fully) to doing a full set list in an arena, and we can all see she wasn't prepared.

So yes, Mariah's gonna need to ease back into live performing, like she did in 2014, starting off TECS tour with some terrible shows (probably her worst up to that point), but her voice gradually gaining strength and ending that year with some amazing Beacon shows. I'm hoping that her voice/confidence will improve with the next NYC show/any further shows next year.

That being said, there's obviously waaaaay more going on here, and others have pretty much hit the nail on the head (not warming up, not putting her vocal health first). Alcohol is clearly a big issue as well, and I can't help but wonder if the botched 2014 AIWFCIY moment actually scared her into sobriety (temporarily), and maybe that's why those Beacon shows were so strong. I hope she wouldn't have to experience another public shaming like that but she's made it pretty clear that she has no intention of changing her lifestyle or giving up her vices so idk (hopefully the CBS special doesn't go viral for the wrong reasons).

As far a playback, I'm not a fan but didn't really mind it used sparingly, on climaxes for super hard to hit notes. But this tour is just ridiculous. Her saving grace in recent tours were the little moments, doing snippets of "Slipping Away", etc. but now she's lipping most of those moments as well, i.e. "Miss You Most". Same with "Away in a Manger", it just felt so unnecessary and like she's depriving the show of a needed organic moment.

I genuinely hope she can get it together and improve. I also understand the fans that just want to enjoy her current output, not focus on negativity, etc. But unfortunately there's not a lot of good to focus on, and I fear it won't get any better/will get worse unless MC wakes up and gets focused on what's best for her voice. But that's just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
(Thursday 15 December 2022; 06:46)


this is a reply to message		101,832

I'm brought to Tears (101,837) by Tevin from USA

Please everyone hear me out. So I was going to vent, get angry, get upset, but at the end of the day as I'm typing this before I go to bed, I realized it doesn't matter. I doesn't matter if the "Yessss Queen" always positive Lambs come up with excuses. It doesn't matter if the negative nacys has their critiques. It doesn't matter if people spend or don't spend there hard earned money to see Mariah live. It doesn't matter if her team and close friends are telling her the truth, trying to help her, or are just using her as a cash ATM machine. It doesn't matter if most people on this message board could now sing a song such as Hero (dare I say it) better than The Mariah Carey can. It doesn't matter if she has vocal nodules, if she hasn't practiced properly for this mini tour, if she did not build up her vocal stamina because she hasn't toured in 4 years. The point of my rant is this, as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. What I'm trying to say is this, I don't expect Mariah to sound like the 90s. Heck I don't even expect her to sound like the early to mid 2000's. But from some of the recent performances that she has been doing this year (especially after she said her voice was back and in great shape), we all can see something is seriously wrong. I've never seen her voice give out so many times in a song and it pains me. I firmly believe she can turn this around and put on a decent performance. But as I watch some of the past performances of Mariah, like My All in 2016 and 2018, some of the Caution tour (performances after she had dem babies, for people that used the "pregnancy causes her voice to get deeper" excuse) I'm truly saddened and brought to tears. Not for myself, because we will always have the music, videos and the records. But I'm saddened for Mariah. All fame, money, prestige aside, I'm saddened that just like Whitney and unfortunately Celine to (though not as bad), that the voice that may go down in history as one of the most beautiful, unique, impressive and complex voices in history, is now gone (at least at this time). Whether it's her own fault, or circumstances out of her control (such as medical issues). I just hope that she is able to turn some of this around, not just for our sake but for her own sake as well. Mariah says that singing is her therapy and life, and I just want to see her gain some confidence in her voice and in herself. Her performance doesn't have to be perfect, heck it doesn't even have to be great. I just hope it's good enough that she can feel content with what voice she has left. As much as we don't want to admit it, even though the voice will never be of the 90s again, that same women is still from the 90s, she knows her vocal flaws and mistakes and what she can and cannot do anymore, more than we do. I just hate seeing her look miserable and terrified on stage. If its health issues causing this, like Celine, she should just tell us that she needs time away from singing to focus on her voice or family, whatever excuse. But if its simply a lack of vocal care, then I hope she gets and seeks the help that she needs. By the way, vocal nodules don't cause your voice to go out like that throughout songs, that's caused by things such as not working on your breathing techniques and warming up properly. I firmly believe that Mariah can turn her situation around, if she wants to, but I can't help getting this feeling out of my gut that the last two of the three women that I grew up listening to (rip Whitney), may be semi retiring. I hate to end on a somber note and I hope that I'm wrong, but this may be the end of the vocal trinity (from a live/touring perspective). But at least we have the music and the memories.

Man do I hope I'm wrong.

(Thursday 15 December 2022; 05:48)

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