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Re: End of the affair (96,255) (96,261) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines This may be more complicated than that. Remember how Michael Jackson had a song called Childhood? Setting the child molestation mess aside, it's clear that Michael and some of his other siblings were robbed of a normal childhood. They've all dealt with such trauma differently as they grew up, and some managed better than the others. It's these proofs of individual differences that play a part in coping with heavy issues that make me empathize more with anyone who has had not such a happy upbringing as a child, Mariah included. So while acting like she's eternally 12 is definitely not the most ideal way of dealing with her past, that doesn't necessarily mean she's dwelling in it. It's just her fun, annoying way of putting it. Much of her actions as an adult, as childish as they may seem, comes across as her chasing something that she wasn't afforded as a young girl from an unstable family and making sure her own children don't experience the same. It's her way of coping, and frankly, for everything she has had to endure, it seems to have worked for her somehow. She's now a middle aged icon who has outlived many of her legend peers who have succumbed to more serious issues. We can't really knock that because seriously, in such a cutthroat business that's always looking for the next shiny new toy, longevity is unfortunately an achievement. Don't let victim complex-ridden memoir fool you - this woman is a survivor and despite her many missteps she still continues to prove that she has a better head on her shoulders than most stars, and definitely more than most people give her credit for. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 19:00)

Re: End of the affair (96,252) (96,260) by Andrew from the United Kingdom "[I]t's not really constructive to call her experiences BS when they are her experiences." Bloody hell, Bill. It is a weak argument that someone's "lived experience" cannot be challenged, especially when all visible evidence is to the contrary and/or their reliability as a witness is tenuous. The phrase "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining" comes to mind, once more. However, if Mariah wants to push delusion and fabrication let her. She always has. But any fan, Lamb or Queen that supports this is actually worse - those people that insist a performance is live when it clearly is not, that an image is not doctored when it clearly is, that a vocal not engineered when it clearly has been. And now Mariah's untruthfulness is supported in accounts of things that clearly did not happen that way. Mariah has sold you a false weather forecast and pissed all over your leg. And you're telling everybody to buy umbrellas. - Glitter was never billed as a soundtrack - Loverboy sold a lot due to discounting - TRL was Mariah rushing her entrance and acting insane - The plates didn't slip out of her hand - She did not disappear to background singing because of Celine Dion - Tommy Mottola did not "help" launch her career - he launched the whole bloody thing - She is not suddenly a "black woman who is also mixed race" - she is mixed race Enough with the "BS". (Thursday 15 October 2020; 18:08)

Re: Mariah unfiltered feelings about things (96,241) (96,259) by Mirage_Nunez from America Honestly I've always thought Mariah really felt uncomfortable up there during the Testimony performance because Aretha (seemly impromptu) started singing about Jesus and she had on that short (see through illusion) dress. And if you know anything about church etiquette then modesty in apparel is a key component. I could tell she didn't want to do too much and wanted it to be over as quickly as possible (like any awkward moment), but it just kept going and going... and going. I don't think the problem for Mariah was Celine actually singing/responding to Aretha in general during the performance. She just felt like Celine did the most and it came off as upstaging Aretha (to her). Her point of view of it was to just follow Aretha's lead and not take over/out sing her. Celine was a little extra on that one. Lol but in her defense I would say perhaps she really did just feel like she was keeping up with Aretha, exuding soul, and giving her what she was asking for (in that moment). Now if was a line up of gospel heavy weights (Yolanda Adams, CeCe Winans, Karen Clark etc) up there then it would've came off differently Celine would've fit in perfectly because everybody would've been up there hooping, wailing, and projecting from the depths of there soul. All in the spirit of just praising the Lord of course. Assuming you do know the Lord/believe in him (as Aretha may have put it). Again I don't love that Mariah mentioned this in her book either; it actually does forces some people to question "why is she really mad" and start to objectively point out different faux pas about her. I wished she would've tucked this excerpt away with the Eminem story as well. Now If I have to dig to my objective core about the overall problem Mariah may have had that night. I'd say she felt like Celine upstaged everyone, people expected more from her (especially back then), and behind the scenes probably came up to her afterwards questioning her about why she held back so much, didn't "do this or do that" and the excerpt in her memoir was her line of defense. In other words Celine's performance inadvertently reflected on her in some adverse way and that's what bothered her enough to put it in the memoir. Not to be confused with jealousy though, I really don't think it was that. When Celine sung her first line during Natural Woman you could see Mariah waving her hand smiling, and doing the little head nod along like she was feeling. So I know there's an appreciation for her as a fellow vocalist at the core of all this. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 17:55)

Re: On a lighter note (96,257) (96,258) by Edward from USA Bill, I would've preferred "Do You Know Where You're Going To" over "There for Me". You guys have it as a bonus track on your edition of #1's just like "Everything Fades Away" on Music Box, we don't. If we listen carefully though, both tracks wouldn't have flowed well on this edition of "The Rarities", maybe both will make it on the next one. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 17:40)

Re: On a lighter note (96,256) (96,257) by Bill from the UK Agree that the b sides fit well aside the unreleased tracks and glad they have a home. My heart does ache for There For Me though. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 16:17)

On a lighter note (96,256) by Edward from USA I love "The Rarities". Even though I didn't want SA, EFA and DYTOM on it, I'm glad they finally found a proper home. The way they were sequenced flows perfectly to me. I have listened to the album everyday since it was released. I usually skip "Sexually Transmited Disease". I don't understand how some of the previously unreleased tracks were left aside when they're way better than many of the album cuts they didn't make it into or at least could've sit well with any of them. Mariah said it but most of us didn't believe her when she wrote/sang: But don't believe That's all there is to see You'll never know the real me Holefully we can concentrate on her music, after all we know Mariah has always lived in Mariah's World, just like Michael did. Geniuses tend be perceived as weird from the "Outside" "Looking In". Nobody is perfect. Can't wait for what's in store for Christmas. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 15:36)

Re: End of the affair (96,245) (96,255) by Mutton Dressed as Lamb from UK My last thoughts on the subject of Mariah is her refusal to accept years. She's eternally 12. Um... your memoir tells a story of a 12 year old that was treated like trash and made to feel inferior. Why would you want to exist in that head space for all eternity? (Thursday 15 October 2020; 15:31)

Re: End of the affair (96,253) (96,254) by Bill from the UK No my reply was intended for Andrew Deedre. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 15:30)

Re: End of the affair (96,252) (96,253) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada If you are replying to me in no way I'm I saying I agree with everything Mariah says or does: lok. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 14:29)

Re: End of the affair (96,245) (96,252) by Bill from the UK Hang on, I'm only saying there may be reasons as to why Mariah wasn't comfortable dancing, and gave two potentials - Tommy and her grandmother. I don't know anymore than you do as to why she didn't feel comfortable doing so that evening. For all we know it could have simply been her time of month. I love Mariah a lot and feel awful about all that she went through. I don't agree with everything she says and does, both professionally and personally, but it's not really constructive to call her experiences BS when they are her experiences. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 14:00)

Re: End of the affair (96,244) (96,251) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada Your posts are very insightful Bill. Unfortunately, over the years I feel like being hard on Mariah has become confused with what it means to be objective. There's been a lot of talk about healing since the book came out: Healing is not a one size fits all type of thing. It is highly personal. Even if she is not able to evolve passed the impact of her experiences beyond this point where she is now, that in itself doesn't make her a bad person. As you say, none of us are in her shoes With things like the Oprah interview, where the weight of her pain seems so alive, I can't help but want to see her free from that heaviness, but that really is not our call to make. I really do wish her the best and don't see myself ever not following her. I've been with her for everything. I can't say that about many people. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 13:19)

Re: What is going on here (96,235) (96,250) by Anonymous from I salute your post Robert, here's to hoping the negativity shifts a bit. Deflated/angry post has now ceased. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:49)

Re: Deflated and angry (96,218) (96,249) by Anonymous from Thank you Deedre, high 5 to you too. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:47)

Re: Mariah unfiltered feelings about things (96,241) (96,248) by Mutton Dressed as Lamb from UK "I wish Mariah had written the book solely about her childhood and upbringing. That was special and eyeopening and endearing and heartbreaking. The rest of the book is " This (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:44)

Re: What is going on here (96,242) (96,247) by RibbonB from USA Lol definitely not Bravo. I must admit that BET did an excellent job with the New Edition biopic. Some people would be up in arms. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:32)

AG MC JH (96,246) by Andrew from the United Kingdom I really hope Mariah takes the opportunity to record and release a song with Ariana Grande and not just confine a collaboration with her to featuring her on an Apple TV Special. I can do without J-Hud. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:26)

Re: End of the affair (96,244) (96,245) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Mariah didn't dance at Diva's Live because... Tommy Mottola. FFS . I think if anyone were to step back and assess what has happened here: - Mariah is an eternal victim of everyone around her - Mariah has never contributed to any negativity that has befallen her - Mariah is no longer a mixed race person but a black woman (coinciding with the BLM movement) - Mariah is mature but throwing many people under a bus No wonder people are calling this out now as total bullshit. And no wonder people are abandoning her. Is this a likeable person? Maybe so. Maybe not. But this book if clearly full of bullshit. To say that TRL was a set up? That she was perfectly normal? Kiss my ring. I am seriously finding it difficult to feel anywhere near the same about Mariah as I did before. It is well documented here that I detest lies and liars. Someone's lie is not permissible made by labelling "their truth" and dismissing analysis and criticism of it. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 12:21)

Re: End of the affair (96,243) (96,244) by Bill from the UK Well I was always told if it is somebody's perception, then it is real to them. Therefore, if it is real to Mariah, then I believe that she believes it to be the truth. In the grand scheme of things what some geeky remix obsessed pedantic fuddy duddy like me thinks or believes doesn't really matter, it's not my story to tell. To your point around Mariah standing still during Testimony, yes, that happened and was noticeable. But I remember also reading a story where someone was talking about Mariah being at some party. She got up to go to the dance floor and Tommy sent her back to sit alone by herself as "Mariah shouldn't and doesn't dance". The memoir shows how much the actions of others have impacted Mariah hugely, even small things (your left side is better). For all we know it could have been residual insecurities around that comment that was made about her. And let's not forget the moment in her memoir where her grandmother forced her to dance to prove she was black. We don't really know the whole picture and what was racing through her mind that night, or what insecurities she was dealing with at the time. If her voice wasn't on point, did she really want to make it worse by awkwardly dancing and having that judged by everybody as well? The memoir has certainly given me new perspectives on all her actions, and my overarching response to most criticisms now is that we should cut her some slack and forgive her missteps and not be so hard on her. She's had it hard enough already and her fans should be the last people to contribute to that. I still will not hold back around awful musical choices like Why You Mad and Infinity, as she can do much better, but to judge her as a person and her actions, put simply, it's not my place. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 11:35)

Re: End of the affair (96,231) (96,243) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Big Willy, what say you on that book? Do you believe it? (Thursday 15 October 2020; 10:27)

Re: What is going on here (96,236) (96,242) by Norman from USA We'll see where it lands. That'll go far to help determine what the final product will look like. I'm more excited for the Apple+ tv Christmas special right now. And that's only because it's with Apple. If I hear Hallmark or Bravo, I'm out. I'm skipping that project. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 10:24)

Re: Mariah unfiltered feelings about things (96,234) (96,241) by Andrew from the United Kingdom Okay. Would the proper response to Mariah's bullshit retelling of the story to play Divas's Live in front of her and point out that during Testimony Shania and Celine are pumped and dancing with each other, Carole goes over to pair up and dance with Gloria and Mariah - Mariah is stood statuesque on her own looking like a lemon. She appears extremely awkward and very aloof. Would it not be appropriate to ask if it is actually for this reason that she disappears into the background? Would it not be appropriate to ask if she struggles singing such a high song when asked to join in by Aretha and then ask her if Aretha demanding Celine to "help [her] lift it" was a response to Mariah's failure to do so? Would it show journalistic integrity to ask her if she has thrown Celine under a bus to try to rewrite what actually happened - that Mariah acted aloof, tried to hide from the spotlight due to vocal restrictions and then failed when brought into the spotlight? Would it be appropriate to ask her why *this* made that book but other stories involving the likes of Eminem did not? Oh, Eminem didn't "pertain to the meaning of Mariah Carey"? That's odd. He did enough to warrant writing songs called Clown and Obsessed about him. I don't recall any songs about Diva's Live called "White Canadian Bacon (Wish I Could Sing Like That)". I wish Mariah had written the book solely sbout her childhood and upbringing. That was special and eyeopening and endearing and heartbreaking. The rest of the book is (Thursday 15 October 2020; 10:18)

Re: What is going on here (96,235) (96,240) by Lady B from USA I totally feel you. I think people just like to harp on the negative. I tried to ask folks who they thought were positives in the book and got maybe 1 reply. Such is life I guess. haha. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 09:08)

Re: Mariah unfiltered feelings about things (96,234) (96,239) by Aliya from Canada If we are still talking about Celine, do people remember when Mariah sang with Olivia Newton-John? In the performance, Mariah clearly takes a step back to let Olivia's vocals shine because Olivia is a legend in her own right and it was her song. By doing this, Mariah showed her respect for Olivia. I feel like Mariah may have genuinely thought that Celine should have given the same respect to Aretha when they performed. I didn't consider this before, but after re-watching the performance of Mariah and Olivia, I can see where Mariah is coming from when talking about Celine in her book. I also don't think Celine meant any harm and didn't realize that she may have upstaged Aretha. She was simply singing and trying her best, as a singer should, but didn't mean to disrespect anyone. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 06:17)

Re: Everything Fades Away (96,137) (96,238) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada I have to agree. I’ve always liked the song but ever since the new album came out I have a deeper love for it. It has been on repeat a lot. I love it. (Thursday 15 October 2020; 03:28)

Re: Deflated and angry (96,222) (96,237) by Nicky from Jasmine's Sofa Anytime. (highfive ) (Thursday 15 October 2020; 01:59)

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