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Re: What sank Charmbracelet? (100,812) (100,819) by Randy from USA I think what sank Charmbracelet is that Mariah didn't go away. She released Rainbow in 1999 with a ton of promotion. Then the Glitter fiasco in 2001 when she was on the cover of every tabloid. Then she promoted the hell out of Charmbracelet in 2002. She needed to go away for awhile so people would care about her again. They would get a chance to miss her and realize why she's needed. Oh and I love Through The Rain, Lullaby and Subtle Invitation. (Monday 25 July 2022; 06:48)

Re: Walter (100,808) (100,818) by Anonymous from USA Tell'em Terna! Y'all better recognize that man's talents. You can hate on him all you want but he is very talented and successful, with or without our girl Mimi. (Monday 25 July 2022; 04:14)

Re: What sank Charmbracelet? (100,812) (100,817) by Anonymous from USA Damn Stacey! I’ve always wondered what made this album so different and your description was right on point! Notice I spelled your name right this time. My name is Dago BTW! Also, when I told you to shut up last year, it was an accident. It was meant towards he who shall not be named, I just happened to reply to your message. Huge misunderstanding Stacey. (Monday 25 July 2022; 04:08)

Re: Walter (100,811) (100,816) by Lady B from USA They had a nice run for sure. She had 15 #1 hits that he was not credited on, so I don't think "she would have had half her career without him", as Terna said, is accurate. He had zero #1 songs that he wrote (did have 1 produced) without her. That's not a diss or bringing him down, those are merely the true stats. (Monday 25 July 2022; 03:07)

Re: What sank Charmbracelet? (100,807) (100,815) by Rashidi Rahim Rick from Malaysia This is my opinion on the reasons why the album sank: 1. The whisper vocals. This album is supposed to be her redemption album after the debacle Glitter era. Why on earth would she go for the whisper route. Just sing and showcase her voice on all the songs. 2. The belting is thin and filtered. Even though she belt certain songs on the album at the end of the songs (Through The Rain, My Saving Grace) but the belting had no ummph because it is so thin. She should do it like Circles, where it the vocals is raw and the belt is thick. 3. Wrong singles choices. She didn't have to go for ballad as first single. Nobody wants to hear a sad song as the opening song for your album. Make it happy and positive. Go for uptempo song, You Got Me. And make the video sweet and happy like at the basketball court where Mariah falls in love with the player. She was at the time wearing a Michael Jordan jersey where she turned it into a cute outift. 4. The album cover. It's so copycat of the Daydream cover, but with colors. She should pick the white dress where she lying down on the grass. It will grab attention. 5. The album title. Name the album as Sunflower. (Monday 25 July 2022; 02:42)

Re: What sank Charmbracelet? (100,807) (100,814) by Bobby A from United States Through the Rain being released as the lead single is what sanked Charmbraclet [sic]. It only made it as high as 81 on the Hot 100. Radio stations needed a fun upbeat MC after the Glitter ordeal. Lyor Choen steered MC in the wrong direction. Charmbraclet [sic] was really all over the place from beginning to end. (Monday 25 July 2022; 02:21)

Re: What sank Charmbracelet? (100,807) (100,813) by Terna from Nigeria The album had fillers, lots of them, lacked tangible single [material] except for "Through The Rain" (which of course was a good start and was needed as she addressed the breakdown indirectly) and wasn't cohesive. Then those hideous vocals. Where was her chest voice? Ugh. Simply put "Charmbracelet" was [bland] and [boring] and quite honestly, my least favorite album. Smh. Such hard times to be a Mariah Carey [fan] 2002-2004. She lost half her [fan] base during this time. I was so disappointed in the record especially her singing and then as if to taunt Mariah fans, Celine's "One Heart" was released around the same time, and was everything "Charmbracelet" wasn't and that's putting it lightly. Lol. (Monday 25 July 2022; 02:11)

Re: What sank Charmbracelet? (100,807) (100,812) by Stacey from USA Honestly for me it was the over usage of the whisper vocal. There were so many emotionally charged lyrical moments that called for that full mid upper range voice vocal and she gave me a whisper. CB was full of either whisper or stratospheric belts. I missed that mid range full voice vocal that we got so much of with TOEM. The arrangements for Subtle Invitation and There Goes My Heart are amazing. But her whisper vocals got lost in the music, IMO. There's a moment toward the end of TGMH where she gives a full vocal riff and I just crave more of that over this amazing arrangement. MC is the master of building that tension through the first, second verse and subsequent choruses. Then she blows us away with an amazing bridge and final chorus. I missed that emotional release on CB. I didn't get that release on CB. At the end of the day, I'm grateful for CB. It gave MC a time to shine, to write songs which helped her emotionally release with what happened the past few years and set up her big comeback with TOEM. I saw MC on her last tour date of CB in 2003. She sounded amazing. I love I Only Wanted and Irresistible. (Monday 25 July 2022; 01:49)

Re: Walter (100,808) (100,811) by Stacey from USA Amen Terna. Well said. I especially loved this part of your post, "We don't have to bring others down in order for [MC] to shine, she does that already without effort." I challenge everyone here to look at Emotions, Unplugged, Music Box, Daydream, and Butterfly. Look at each song on each album and count all the times Walter is mentioned. Walter and MC had a magical connection. Let him enjoy that success. At the end of the day, I'm grateful for the music I get to enjoy everyday. (Monday 25 July 2022; 01:31)

Re: Just Stand Up (100,809) (100,810) by Bobby A from United States Lol. Just trying keep those fire whistles notes on the down low. I love this gem. (Monday 25 July 2022; 01:00)

Re: Just Stand Up (100,800) (100,809) by Terna from Nigeria You call those whistle notes subtle? That was pure fire. I've been playing this song ever so frequently of late and yes Mariah did her thing and I always felt the line she sang, she was the best person to sing it. "You will know that you're good if you trust in the good, through whatever" chills every time. The highlight of 2008 in music for me was this song. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 21:45)

Re: Walter (100,795) (100,808) by Terna from Nigeria Hey, what were not gonna do here is disrespect Walter Afanasieff. It's just not going to happen. Walter was already an established pianist and music producer by the time Mariah Carey came along. You better check that man's body of work, before you come on here to display your ignorance. Yes we love Mariah, but we don't have to bring others down in order for her to shine, she does that already without effort. This doesn't mean people she has worked with are any less credible or legit in their own endeavors. Walter and Mariah had magic not just chemistry and the songs they created from scratch speak volumes. Her best songs are the songs she wrote with him, there's no denying that, and if you take away all those songs, she will have less than half the career she has now. Yes, he didn't really recreate that magic with other artists after they fell out, but that also applies to her also. Her biggest "cash cow" song so to speak - a gift that keeps on giving is "All I Want For Christmas is You" and that's co-written and produced with Walter. The man is a genius. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 21:17)

What sank Charmbracelet? (100,807) by Matty from Vancouver Canada So Charmbracelet was the album that moved the dial for me from my mom's adjacent Celine Dion/Barbra [favourite] to Mariah is [my] personal [queen]. The question is: what [sank] Charmbracelet? [I'm] listening to it now on [vinyl] and the only reason I can think it sank was the horrible album art (the worst of all album covers she's done, I don't read what she was trying to convay), and she was introducing us, the public, to her whisper voice. Aside from the hate in this platform has for "Boy" (which I personally loved blasting, bumping in my [parent's mini van] at 16) the tracks are solid. The songs and lyrics are beyond superior. So what sank it musically? (Not breakdown [Glitter] sabotage, I'm talking musical.) (Sunday 24 July 2022; 18:30)

Re: Thoughts: which album do you think MC dislikes (100,804) (100,806) by Anonymous from United States I totally agree. And the "Rainbow" era, despite not being her best album output, was really a lot of fun. She seemed pretty carefree and happy. The tour was a lot of fun. And I liked that her style was super casual. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 15:41)

Re: Walter (100,799) (100,805) by Stacey from USA Like I said, all the details don't matter to me. It doesn't bother me at all if Walter flaunts his involvement with AIWFCIY each year. I'm just grateful for the music I get to enjoy everyday. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 11:01)

Re: Thoughts: which album do you think MC dislikes (100,801) (100,804) by Stacey from USA Yeah Rainbow is a hot mess. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Heartbreaker, Crybaby, Petals, and After Tonight. But that album doesn't have that cohesive feel to it like other albums. It totally was the "I want out of Sony" rushed job. Still she pulls out two #1 singles. Amazing. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 09:16)

Re: Walter (100,787) (100,803) by enwar00 from usa What's with these hilarious messages? Of course then they'll Carey her away while she's on the chaise lounge because her heels will be too high to walk on her own anyway. Because she cannot, dahling, she cannot. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 03:00)

Re: Top 5 Did I Do That? Top 5 Triumphant (100,791) (100,802) by enwar00 from usa Bill, your #2 and #3 Did I Do That's were hilarious. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 02:55)

Re: Thoughts: which album do you think MC dislikes (100,754) (100,801) by Anonymous from United States If I were Mariah, I'd probably say "Rainbow" for her Sony period. That record had some good songs on it, but it just did not work as an album. Plus she even admitted that it was her "get me off of this record label" album. Aside from "Heartbreaker", "Thank God I Found You", "Crybaby", "Petals", and "Can't Take That Away", most of the songs are pretty forgettable. I could also see her not liking the debut either. The production was just all over the place and rendered her pretty anonymous on most of the songs. There was such a vast improvement from that record to "Emotions". I still cannot fathom how "Emotions" did not sell better and how it didn't get rave reviews. Easily my second favorite album after "Butterfly". In terms of post-"Glitter" records, I would bet "E=MC2". That is definitely my least favorite Mariah album. It seemed pretty evident that the only goal for that it was to recreate the success of the previous one. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 02:04)

Just Stand Up (100,800) by Bobby A from United States You know I had ro pull out the Just Stand Up cd today. Mariah, Beyonce and Mary J. Blige got the top three starring credits. Mariah really gave some great vocals on the bridge. Definitely Music Box vocals on the bridge. I am really sure Babyface told MC to do just her thing. The whole arrangement of the chorus and after bridge chorus sounds like MC gave her input. There are subtle whistle notes toward the end of this gem. (Sunday 24 July 2022; 01:46)

Re: Walter (100,797) (100,799) by Lady B from USA They had a nice run together a couple of decades ago. To level set and stick to the facts, he has co-writing credits on 4 of her 19 #1 hits. And those are the only #1 hits of his writing career (despite writing many other songs with good artists). He also has a production #1 song with Celine. He had a nice, and lucrative career, with 100% of his #1 hits (writing or producing) having been done in the 90s. (Saturday 23 July 2022; 06:08)

Re: Thoughts: which album do you think MC dislikes (100,792) (100,798) by Matty from Vancouver Canada I would have never guessed anyone would have thought MC dislikes Daydream. It seems to me that's one of the albums she is the most proud of. It was the blueprint for Butterfly, which she adores. I could see her hating Music Box. She hates on Hero so much publicly. In concert she doesn't give it much love. I think it's either the debut or Music Box, maybe even Rainbow. I wonder how often she actually listens to that mish-mash tbh. (Saturday 23 July 2022; 00:27)

Re: Walter (100,795) (100,797) by Stacey from USA Honestly who cares if Walter touts AIWFCIY each year. He is given writing credit in the liner notes after all. Furthermore, MC didn't want to make a Christmas album so early in her career. Tommy pushed her to do such. Either way, all the details don't matter to me. I'm just grateful the song was written and is such a staple come Christmas time. "I, don't want a lot for Christmas..." (Friday 22 July 2022; 22:27)

Re: Walter (100,795) (100,796) by Bill from the UK This is unhealthy. (Friday 22 July 2022; 22:02)

Re: Walter (100,779) (100,795) by Mariahsbaby from usa I obviously meant after his fall out with Mariah, listing all those great artists yet he has written the worst songs of most of their respective careers. It's not a flex as you might think. Mariah never needed him and he would be nothing without her, a lap dog for Sony most powerful men, I highly doubt he had any real part of any of those hits he claims he wrote, and I base that off his comments about Mariah. When we all know who does the most work, ask any producer who has worked with her. Every negative comment that has been said about Mariah on this message board, should and could be redirected towards him. Mariah is out here making and breaking records and Walter comes out of his cave every season to make sure people know he "wrote" the song with Mariah. Yet sadly for him not a single soul outside of this board really cares. We just had to laugh. (Friday 22 July 2022; 20:40)

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