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Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,567) by Mirage_Nunez from America Tommy just should've never crossed the line of business and started a romantic relationship with Mariah; and played the same role Clive Davis did with Whitney, just being a mentor, guide and protector to a young MC. That would've been more mentally healthy for her in the long run. He gave Mariah the perfect launching pad for her career no doubt, but I believe his overly controlling antics could be the reason why MC went so hard in the opposing direction after their split. Maybe had he not been so ridiculously controlling, Mariah would've displayed more of a balance in certain areas once they split. It's like the kid that grew up in a very strict household once they go to college, break free, and living it up big time. Overall I think it was a little bit of both: he definitely helped guide her and also stifled some of her organic creativity/musical identity. Remember some of the gems we have is because she had to scheme to have it recorded and released. (Thursday 11 March 2021; 12:11)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,565) (97,566) by Andrew from the United Kingdom You are correct. The most famous episode of Star Trek in the sixties was called City On The Edge Of Forever. In it, someone was transported back in time and then innocently saves a woman's life; the woman, a pacifist, was then instrumental in preventing the United States from joining WWII resulting in Hitler conquering Europe and the space race never having happened. Humankind does not reach for the stars, the world is a very different place. All systems, even the most complex of systems can be drastically altered when an input of any size is altered (often unhelpfully referred to, but not without irony here, as a "Butterfly Effect"). Recently it has become very fashionable for the Hard Left to scream into the air about perceived historical injustice and the attitudes and ideologies of the protagonists of the times. No person of good conscious cannot help but regret that horrible things have occurred in human history: every race seemingly enslaved by another, whole races of peoples targeted for elimination, people tortured, slain, denied education, sexually assaulted and so on. History is full of hideousness, right? It can sometime be overwhelming to appreciate what had to have happened in order for us to be be here. For if any of it changed, we would not be here. I mention this because it is oft the proclivity of people to cry foul at people like Tommy Mottola with such rancour and hatred that he is lambasted for his behaviour at the mere utterance of his name. But Mariah would assuredly have had a very different career and level of success without him. It may have been much better. It could equally have been much worse. But what is true to say that any alteration to the past would result in people who are here not being here and possibly a more disastrous world. So better to not look back in anger but in wonder. And learn to make today and tomorrow better, spinning the narrative on its head and rather being thankful that people who went before us made the mistakes so that we can learn from them and perhaps not repeat them. (Thursday 11 March 2021; 11:23)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,565) by Lainsky from Philippines Not siding with Tommy or whatsoever but we have to see him as broken as Mariah too. He was divorced, so, relationship was not his cup of tea. Music industry, on the other hand, was his expertise at that time and he knew exactly what to do with someone extraordinary like Mariah Carey. We cannot deny the fact that Tommy, partly and a huge part of it if I may add, made her who she is today. Our experiences in life, both good and bad, matter. Every experiences matter. Not that I am glad but it was good that Tommy had to happen in Mariah's life and music career. (Thursday 11 March 2021; 03:57)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,562) (97,564) by Andrew from the United Kingdom It always make me laugh when people dismiss Mottola and claim that he held Mariah back or stifled her and further that she was never really able to make the music she wanted to because of him. Her demo tape isn't full of hip hop heavy songs. It's saccharine and pop. And even after a slightly more Urban sounding record with Butterfly, the free bird Mariah recorded Rainbow. And Glitter. And Charmbracelet. In fact hardly any of Mariah's so called newfound musical freedom resulted in anything much different to what came before. It just had less appealing melodies, less slick production, and a weaker voice. Mariah Carey of the 90's was amazing. It may be rude for Katy Perry to say "good for a throwback" or awkward when Shawn Mendes days "listening to old school Mariah", but truth be told: 90's Mariah unparalleled gold dust. Everything after has been of varying quality and at many points often boring, repetitive and uninspiring. (Wednesday 10 March 2021; 03:04)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,562) (97,563) by Mimi L. from Empower Your Highlighter Tommy is absolutely a huge reason why Mariah is as big as she is today. I think Mariah has every now and then admitted it too. Not only his experience but also he had huge hold during his reign at Sony and he ensured Mariah was top front and centre. I know Mariah hated being covered and singing cheesy songs and also she was kept away from being a "celebrity", but these did put the focus on just her voice and singing. That being said, I want to also bring forward that we shouldn't forget that Daydream onwards had Mariah not taken the steering wheel in terms of what kind of music she made and her change in image, she wouldn't be relevant today. She would have been left in the early 90s regardless of her immense talent. Now she's known as a revolutionary, setting trends and credit for that goes to her. So yes while Tommy played a huge role in the starting years, post 1995 Mariah is the reason she's still considered such a force in the music industry. If she was still making the music Tommy made her write, she would not have come this far. This is also true now when fans complain that she doesn't experiment more with collaborators or music styles and is stuck in her mid 2000s formula. But if someone can mix it up, it's Mariah. (Wednesday 10 March 2021; 01:14)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,562) by ADAM from USA Tommy said in his memoir that his obsessiveness was the reasons for Mariah's success within Sony. This I firmly believe. Not taking anything away from Mariah's gifts, without the direction and support of someone like Tommy and Sony records, you will become dust. Lest not forget, Tommy was a established executive who groomed Bruce Springsteen and Michael Jackson. His also studied many generations of performers and knew of the cyclical pattern of artists peaks and valleys regarding their voice abilities. These talents in mind, he one Mariah could appeal to the world and with a look/voice like she had she could sell many records like Whitney Houston. In fact, she go go greater lengths because Mariah is externally white-looking. He saw a diamond in the rough with MC and invested everything in the next big superstar. He and Mariah won big time. Mariah's legacy is largely in place because of her Sony period. I think Mariah should be more truthful about this period in her life. They both are massively successful because of their partnership. For every Mariah Carey, there is the sea full of Teena Marie, Charli Baltimore, Paula Abdul, etc. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 23:48)

Hero live at Grand Gala du Disc 1993 (97,561) by HoneyLamb from Germany Sigh, what a magnificent live performance. This is the first time I see this video. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 18:23)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,559) (97,560) by MusicfanJ from Germany "The focus was mostly on her music - not on being famous, not on her personal life, not on her image." Yes it was all about her music for which she became the superstar around the world. Tommy wasn't the right man for her private life for sure, but for the business part he was a great choice. He did the best for the success. Her first albums are the reason why she's so legendary even at the early age at the late ninenties. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 18:21)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,559) by BFF from United States It's interesting to reflect on the fact that Mariah and Mottola both now agree that they should have never gotten married. Mariah even wrote in her memoir that she did not want to marry him. When she married Tommy, I believe that Mariah was looking for stability after years of dealing with an unstable environment in her family. I don't think she was really in love with him. I think Mariah's perspective on the marriage in interviews in 1997/1998 was much healthier than it is now. Back then, she considered the marriage stifling and controlling but was also willing to acknowledge that she made the choice to be in the marriage. I believe that Tommy was controlling and that the marriage was very negative for Mariah, but I also believe he was instrumental in helping her achieve the professional success she achieved in the 1990s. He believed in her music and invested time, money, and energy into her vision. Another positive aspect of her time with Tommy was that she was not really in the tabloids in the way she was in the post-1997 period. In the early and mid 1990s, the focus was mostly on her music - not on being famous, not on her personal life, not on her image. We've had some great music since the late 1990s, but most of the output just hasn't measured up. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 14:48)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,558) by Sasha from Nomansland Mariah said they both reaped professional benefits from this marriage. There's no doubt that she used to be a great singer with astonished voice abilities but she's not the only one. There are plenty talented people on this earth but she happened to be at the right place and right time with the right people. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 14:06)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,557) by T from USA The real question is if Tommy [was] black would she have felt the need to break away so badly? Would she still be giving him his props the way she does to the predatory LA Reid? (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 13:47)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,556) by Korey2 from United Stated I highly recommend Tommy’s memoir as a read as well. I agree with a lot of what you said. Imagine not having all those albums you listed. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 01:50)

Re: Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) (97,555) by RibbonB from USA This topic has been discussed ad nauseam on this board. I wonder why it's so easily forgotten. (Tuesday 9 March 2021; 01:26)

Tommy Mottola, a monster? (97,554) by Joachim Agerup Løkkevik from Norway I'm not a big user of instagram, but lately I have started to follow a few of the Mariah fanprofiles. Sometimes there is a picture of Mariah and Tommy together, and the comments are almost vicious consedring Tommy. It seems like most Mariah fans think of him as a monster, like a modern Beauty and the Beast tale. I know Mariah might have suffered some psychological trauma because of that marriage, but I have also always thought of it as a bit of an exaggeration, you know, people have experienced real trauma without having the possibility to write music, express themselves, perform and earning a sh*t loads of money. I don't downplay Mariah's own experience, but face it, she was still privileged. I wonder what had happened to Mariah's career if she wasn't supervised or controlled by Tommy. Would she have started wearing skimpy clothes from the beginning? Would she have partied and not taken care of her voice early on, and maybe her vocal decline would have started after her very first record? Would there have ever been the masterpiece that we all consider the Tokyo Dome concerts to be? I'm conflicted when it comes to Tommy. I believe Mariah felt hostage, and that is not forgivable. But would Mariah have had the high points in her career without Tommy? In many ways I'm grateful that Tommy had such a firm hand on her career, because if he hadn't, I don't think there would have been any Music Box, Merry Christmas, Daydream or even Butterfly, all albums every Mariah fans think is her golden age of her career. I don't think Mariah would have been the superstar and legend she is today without him. I can't remember if this has been a topic on this site many times or not, just wanted to share my thoughts while I'm watching old school Mariah performances from the early 90's. (Monday 8 March 2021; 18:09)

What stifles Mariah's future collaborations (97,553) by John from USA I like the idea of Mariah working with singer/songwriters like Bruno Mars, who still make music that is not only sounds fresh and current but also has a sort of timeless familiarity to it. I've been hoping there is a secret Mariah guesting in upcoming Silk Sonic album, but that might be a longshot. I also wish for Maxwell to rework the arrangement and lyrics to his "Pretty Wings" song to add the perspective of the woman he was talking to. Of course, Mariah is the one with the pretty wings. They can falsetto and melisma to their hearts in the song, and I could just imaging her whistles tastefully placed as if they were gentle flapping wings sprinkled through the song. Daley is an R&B singer whose vocal stylings clearly reflect a Mariah influence. His duet with Marsha Ambrosius ("Alone Together") is an R&B jam that Mariah could have sung majestically in her "prime". What stifles Mariah's future collaborations though is her insistence on working on her own with just her vocal engineer. There's something magical that can occur when artists craft music together in real time and work off of each other's energy and creative faculties. That is probably part of the reason why #Beautiful felt so incomplete and unfinished - potential not fully realized in my opinion. I know Mariah has become increasingly insecure about her "vocal gifts", but I hope she can shake this off, for the sake of making great music once again. (Sunday 7 March 2021; 17:48)

Re: Bruno Mars' Leave Door Open (97,551) (97,552) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines And it's crazy how rare it is these days to actually have a single with a 4-minute runtime when most artists and record companies in the last 2 years have been hell bent on keeping things shorter than 3 minutes to do better on streaming platforms. I don't care if Bruno built and maintains his career mostly on pastiches. As long as they're grade A+, lovingly executed throwbacks, that's still miles ahead of the half-baked, half-assed stuff that fills a great chunk of the charts today. (Sunday 7 March 2021; 16:52)

Re: Bruno Mars' Leave Door Open (97,550) (97,551) by MusicfanJ from Germany It's nice to listen to. I always like smooth soul with real instruments. Compared to all the trash and the same sounding songs on the charts it's really nice to have one song which has a melody and a band behind it. (Sunday 7 March 2021; 12:40)

Re: Bruno Mars' Leave Door Open (97,549) (97,550) by Will from Australia First song in a whole tray on first listen I was like "wow". (Sunday 7 March 2021; 07:58)

Bruno Mars' Leave Door Open (97,549) by Bobby A from United States If MC doesn't call Bruno Mars up this year for some collaboration sessions, then she would be missing out on this man's impressive songwriting skills. This song is what I need right now. (Saturday 6 March 2021; 15:50)

Mariah on Oprah 1997 (97,548) by Chicago Lamb from USA She performs Hero and Butterfly. Also discusses separation from Tommy, living at Sing Sing, relationship with her mother, Patricia. Good and early reference to some material from TMOMC. (Saturday 6 March 2021; 01:12)

Leave The Door Open (97,547) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines This is all kinds of awesome. When people hear the term "70's music", most automatically think "disco", forgetting the smooth and velvety soul of that era. This collaboration between Bruno Mars and Anderson .Paak is the best homage to 70's soul I have heard in a long time, and further solidifies why aside from The Weeknd, Bruno is the only other man in current pop worth acknowledging. People are sleeping on .Paak as well. This sets the bar quite high for quarantine projects - melodic, nostalgic and very effective for what it sets out to achieve. And it's not produced by The Smeezingtons. (Friday 5 March 2021; 17:20)

Foo Fighters (97,546) by Mara from United States I don't know if anyone saw James Cordon with the Foo Fighters being interviewed. James was interviewing the band and said to Pat Smear that he didn't know they had something in common. Pat said his favorite person to listen to is Mariah Carey and his favorite album is Butterfly all the way. Made me think how cool it would be to have Mariah do something with them for her Chick album if it sees the light of day. I still am praying we get to hear it, especially with her vocals on lead. Hearing them talk about Mariah and thinking how she recorded the Alternative album around the height of Nirvana makes it a collaboration made in heaven. Not to mention Dave Grohl. (Friday 5 March 2021; 04:04)

Re: Top 5 best album openers (97,510) (97,545) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines Honorable mention: Betcha Gon Know - for the intriguing, vivid, angry narrative. 5. Migrate - The first second already announces it as a Mariah track. 4. Heartbreaker - The quintessential upbeat sad song. 3. It's Like That - The first line says it all. 2. Honey - Nothing like orgasmic cooing to open a slinky track. 1. Fantasy - Just the perfect start to an album entitled Daydream. (Thursday 4 March 2021; 12:39)

Re: Cover (97,540) (97,544) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines You Rock My World is the only upbeat track on that album that successfully approximates the contemporary soul sound of his past hits and was the perfect MJ sound for the 2000s compared to the other herky jerky and frantic Darkchild productions. (Thursday 4 March 2021; 12:27)

Re: Languishing (97,530) (97,543) by this_is_qhm from the Philippines Regarding interludes - while I enjoy recorded studio chat as it does lend a sense of intimacy to the record, sometimes it can sound lazy and unnecessary, like those Janet had in her All For You album. (Thursday 4 March 2021; 12:20)

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